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V4 EW Autoplay Motostrelkovy 
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Soviet Motostrelkovy Batalon

Infantry Company, from Barbarossa, page 64


Compulsory Motostrelkovy Batalion HQ (p.65) - CinC Battalion Komissar, 2iC Rifle (20 pts)

Compulsory Motostrelkovy Company (p.65) - Command Komissar, 18x Rifle (175 pts)

Compulsory Motostrelkovy Company (p.65) - Command Komissar, 18x Rifle (175 pts)

Motostrelkovy Machine-gun Company (p.66) - Command Komissar, 12x Maksim HMG (190 pts)

Motostrelkovy Regimental Gun Company (p.67) - Command Komissar, 4x 76mm obr 1927 gun (70 pts)

Light Tankovy Company (p.58) - Command BT-5, 7x BT-5 (330 pts)

Motorised Artillery Battalion (p.80) - Command Komissar, Staff, 8x 76mm obr 1902/30 gun (410 pts)

Guards Rocket Mortar Battalion (p.82) - Command Komissar, 3-ton truck, Komissar, 4x BM-8 Katyusha (95 pts)
- Observer Rifle (15 pts)
- 4x Equip Katyusha with additional crew (20 pts)


1500 Points, 7 Platoons

On defence is virtually unbreakable (you have to kill more than 50 teams to force a formation collapse) and has a huge amount of firepower both against tanks and infantry... on the offence it has 5 artillery templates (one of those is 30x30cm) to do the heavy liftting and a token tank unit for the mop-up.

Can some one find a force that can put into some trouble this soviet steamroller?


Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:10 pm
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If the tank is just mop up, then why not swap out to T60s and add a AAA platoon?


Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:27 pm
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or some cheap mortars?


Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:34 pm
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Thanks for the input Mark, im still stuck into the old V3 mentality in which tanks are actually meaningfull combat units rather than the vultures that scavenge the corps left by the artillery barrage.

Soviet Motostrelkovy Batalon

Infantry Company, from Barbarossa, page 64


Compulsory Motostrelkovy Batalion HQ (p.65) - CinC Battalion Komissar, 2iC Rifle (20 pts)

Compulsory Motostrelkovy Company (p.65) - Command Komissar, 18x Rifle (175 pts)

Compulsory Motostrelkovy Company (p.65) - Command Komissar, 18x Rifle (175 pts)

Motostrelkovy Machine-gun Company (p.66) - Command Komissar, 12x Maksim HMG (190 pts)

Motostrelkovy Mortar Company (p.66) - Command Komissar, 4x 82-BM-41 mortar (65 pts)

Motostrelkovy Regimental Gun Company (p.67) - Command Komissar, 4x 76mm obr 1927 gun (70 pts)

Light Tankovy Company (p.58) - Command T-60, 9x T-60 (265 pts)

Motorised Artillery Battalion (p.80) - Command Komissar, Staff, 8x 76mm obr 1902/30 gun (410 pts)

Guards Rocket Mortar Battalion (p.82) - Command Komissar, 3-ton truck, Komissar, 4x BM-8 Katyusha (95 pts)
- Observer Rifle (15 pts)
- 4x Equip Katyusha with additional crew (20 pts)


1500 Points, 8 Platoons


Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:54 pm
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Nevertheless the main question remains... how do you subdue any of this two lists?


Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:56 pm
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I'm not sure either will do very well against tank based forces which seem to predominate in EW. Both only have one unit with real significant AT potential and one will be the priority target for any enemy bombardments I think, or just ignored. These guys, save the Rockets, are conscripts are they not?

I do like the fact that both have more balanced infantry units. Seeing two units of two platoons is so much more refreshing than one of three and one of one which had been the norm before V4.


Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:27 pm
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They would do very well against tank forces. They have as many 76mm guns as I would have Panzers.

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Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:47 am
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Well tom, 16 at 9 and 16 at 7shoots are enough for early war... please put a tank list that can challange that with any guarantee.

Also the infantry is at the bare minimum (cant take 1 platoon units in EW), its only there to spam artillery templates and in the games its only role is as a speed dump... I supposed thats what you call «combined arms» in EW.


Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:58 am
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PrivateSnafu wrote:
They would do very well against tank forces. They have as many 76mm guns as I would have Panzers.


If you are tying to take this force on at a 1 Gun to 1 tank level, you're doing it wrong. Numbers are mitigated by the mobility of the Panzers and the immobility of the artillery. Mass your effects, leaving most of the enemy guns out of the direct fire fight. Where the Soviet player can mass direct fires from both 76mm obr 1902/30 units, stay out of that kill zone. For the 4x 76mm obr 1927 unit, stay out of their 16" direct fire range.


Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:30 pm
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Iron-Tom wrote:
PrivateSnafu wrote:
They would do very well against tank forces. They have as many 76mm guns as I would have Panzers.


If you are tying to take this force on at a 1 Gun to 1 tank level, you're doing it wrong. Numbers are mitigated by the mobility of the Panzers and the immobility of the artillery. Mass your effects, leaving most of the enemy guns out of the direct fire fight. Where the Soviet player can mass direct fires from both 76mm obr 1902/30 units, stay out of that kill zone. For the 4x 76mm obr 1927 unit, stay out of their 16" direct fire range.


Easier said. First off I don't have my V4 books yet so I am talking out of my arse. Second I had EW in mind with my comment but, I think its very similiar in MW.

I'm not familiar with the new missions but if I have to attack on the short side of the table your argument withers away.

I don't try to go for a one to one stand off, I was only using that as a comparison. On the other hand once I take 10-12 hulls my points are pretty much gone. So its not like I am trying to mass tanks its what you need to actually field a Panzerkompanie. Now since V4 list building looks like 2000+ pts V3 lists I'll have more options and units, but so will da Bear. The BunkerFlak was one of my goto choices of late and despite its enormous cost it was worth it. It made things dead at long ranges. I'm thinking its utility may be diminished with the morale rules and easier ranging in and changes to FP. By the way you are forgetting that I'll need to move into 16" to hit with my light tank units so that puts me in 16" direct fire range.

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Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:59 pm
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Soviet Pride wrote:
Well tom, 16 at 9 and 16 at 7shoots are enough for early war...


I think you mean 16 shots at AT 9 and 8 shots at AT 5. However, Volley fire does indeed make them formidable at 1500pts, but not insurmountable.

Soviet Pride wrote:
please put a tank list that can challange that with any guarantee.


Fortunately, I have a friend who plays a good bit of EW Soviets and can field MotoStrelk force #1. I have a Czech Panzer Co, that I'll try against it when we can line up the game. I'm already playing MW V4 this weekend, but we are working it.

I'm not after a "guaranteed" winner here. I don't think that possible is any more than I think the MotoStrelk forces above are "guaranteed" to win. I'm just looking for a force that can have fun taking on a strong challenge with a chance decent chance to succeed when played well.

Soviet Pride wrote:
Also the infantry is at the bare minimum (cant take 1 platoon units in EW), its only there to spam artillery templates and in the games its only role is as a speed dump... I supposed that's what you call «combined arms» in EW.


Not my definition of combined arms, but you are free to use them as you wish.


Wed Mar 22, 2017 4:03 pm
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PrivateSnafu wrote:

Easier said.


I did not intend to give the impression that would be easy.

PrivateSnafu wrote:
I don't try to go for a one to one stand off, I was only using that as a comparison.


Good to know. Going head on is not a preferable course of action.

PrivateSnafu wrote:
On the other hand once I take 10-12 hulls my points are pretty much gone. So its not like I am trying to mass tanks its what you need to actually field a Panzerkompanie.


Did I say mass your tanks or mass your effects?

PrivateSnafu wrote:
The BunkerFlak was one of my goto choices of late and despite its enormous cost it was worth it. It made things dead at long ranges. I'm thinking its utility may be diminished with the morale rules and easier ranging in and changes to FP.


I'll not be using Bunkerflaks. I don't have them. I'll use a more typical/historical force most likely.

PrivateSnafu wrote:
By the way you are forgetting that I'll need to move into 16" to hit with my light tank units so that puts me in 16" direct fire range.


I'd have to know what you have before I could forget anything about their operational parameters. The Czech Panzer Ko tanks I'll use have 24" range. I do have a unit PzKw-IIs that are 16" range limited, that I may or may not use. Does your Panzer force have no options for rangers greater than 24".


Wed Mar 22, 2017 4:17 pm
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In EW about the only way to get ranges greater than 24" is BunkerFlak and captured T-34's.

I have PzII's, PzIII's, IV's, 38T's. I have most of the choices though not the whole alphabet of variants for III's and IV's.

I keep it historic, the BFlak's were there. Don't be elitist now ;) They work, are not game breaking, and are not cheese. No more strange than getting air support or divisional artillery barrages for your company level action.

I am using the tactics you describe. Mass fire, isolating units, maneuver and flank. EW Panzers are very tough in V3 and I suppose will be no easier in V4, especially once everyone gets a ton of guns. Time will tell.

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Wed Mar 22, 2017 4:32 pm
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PrivateSnafu wrote:
In EW about the only way to get ranges greater than 24" is BunkerFlak and captured T-34's. .


I'm not planning on getting within 24" range of the big old scary gun. Those guns will be priority targets for my own bombardmnets, the Rockets and 16" range guns can wait their turn.

I have PzII's, PzIII's, IV's, 38T's. I have most of the choices though not the whole alphabet of variants for III's and IV's. .[/quote]

I keep it historic, the BFlak's were there. Don't be elitist now ;) They work, are not game breaking, and are not cheese. No more strange than getting air support or divisional artillery barrages for your company level action.

I have no issue with Bunkerflaks in the game and do not look down on anybody who uses them. They were not very common and I don't have any so I'm just not looking at them as a useful option for me in getting at this problem set. The points cost, as you noted, is my biggest concern about them. .[/quote]

PrivateSnafu wrote:
I am using the tactics you describe. Mass fire, isolating units, maneuver and flank. EW Panzers are very tough in V3 and I suppose will be no easier in V4, especially once everyone gets a ton of guns. Time will tell.


I totally agree. Absolutely Time will tell when we start playing V4 more. Sure Panzers took some good amount of skill in V3 to do well with, that's not going away. I'm in no way suggesting that AutoMotoStrelk will be an easy opponent, I just don't accept at this point that its always going to win.


Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:27 pm
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Well just in case, you actually need to actively move to hunt those surviving panzers you can field this variant force with BT´s and extra 76mm guns instead of the HMG unit (which was a bit of an extravaganza, since nobody is going to actually field infantry as an attack element in the mortar bonanza paradise of V4).

Soviet Motostrelkovy Batalon

Infantry Company, from Barbarossa, page 64


Compulsory Motostrelkovy Batalion HQ (p.65) - CinC Battalion Komissar, 2iC Rifle (20 pts)

Compulsory Motostrelkovy Company (p.65) - Command Komissar, 18x Rifle (175 pts)
- Maksim HMG (20 pts)

Compulsory Motostrelkovy Company (p.65) - Command Komissar, 18x Rifle (175 pts)
- Maksim HMG (20 pts)

Motostrelkovy Regimental Gun Company (p.67) - Command Komissar, 4x 76mm obr 1927 gun (70 pts)

Light Tankovy Company (p.58) - Command BT-5, 7x BT-5 (330 pts)
- 8x Replace BT-5 with BT-7 (40 pts)

Motorised Artillery Battalion (p.80) - Command Komissar, Staff, 12x 76mm obr 1902/30 gun (520 pts)

Guards Rocket Mortar Battalion (p.82) - Command Komissar, 3-ton truck, Komissar, 4x BM-8 Katyusha (95 pts)
- Observer Rifle (15 pts)
- 4x Equip Katyusha with additional crew (20 pts)


1500 Points, 6 Platoons


Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:36 pm
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So those are 24 AT-9 shoots with volley fire, 18 AT-7 shoots and just in case you need more AT mass 8 AT-5 shoots from the humble but effcient 1927 guns.

Frankly if Bunkerflaks and captured T-34´s are the answer to this lists I think that the motostrelkovy player can go to the bar or take a nap during two hours of gameplay and still be confident that they will win.

A chezck panzerkompany with 10/12 panzer T38 and a single nebelwerfer battery arent going to make the cut against this force... it didnt do it during V3 and much less under V4 where all the units in the motostrelkovy list got a huge increase in their performance (unlike most of the German kit).

Could some one post an actual list that has any reasonable chance of defeating this motostrelkovy behemoth in a random mission and terrain setting and without being a copy/paste of the motostrelkovy list?


Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:43 pm
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Iron-Tom wrote:
Sure Panzers took some good amount of skill in V3 to do well with, that's not going away.


The real trouble here is that my skill is not going up :lol:

Tom, I owe you a thank you. Your contributions to the forum are outstanding and keeping me engaged even though my commenting has been low or skeptical. You are the mouth of WWPD, now that our fearless founders are focused on other activities. You are doing great work here.

I am however, a bit more in SP camp here when it comes to EW and breaking the Soviets. In V3 I'd been having some mild success using my Panzers against the Red Hoard. My two regular opponents use infantry hordes with tons of guns and tanks in support. Actually I don't even think it needs to be very well optimized as SP is doing. Most variations of his lists will yield similar results. Its a tough nut to crack and, as everyone has rightly pointed out, the tools aren't there (SP's position) or the tactics aren't developed yet (your position).

The successes I had were using Panzer IV's in a stupidly expense role of delivering direct fire smoke and using the BKFlk as snipers at range. Honestly they aren't as bad as they seem. You get ROF3 at range - 6 shots. Its 2 less than a 4 tank platoon but stuff dies, its 6 and 1/2 dozen in my mind. They probably won't benefit from any movement changes in V4 and might be more susceptible to bombardments. You guys who know V4 can probably answer that, I can't.

Smoke was working pretty good but a horrible waste of the units capacity. I was very close to buying a smoke launcher platoon or some nebs as my next EW purchase but, since the announcement of V4 I committed to not spending a lot on this muffler, and will strive to wait 6 mos at least before buying anything new. I refuse to chase "the list". Seems like smoke is not as effective in V4.

The two things I was having success with seem to be less effective. I just see things being harder.

edit : BTW good luck dealing with a T-34 with your PzIII's and PzIV's. Still have to be prepared for this possibility.

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Last edited by PrivateSnafu on Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:33 pm
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Soviet Pride wrote:
Frankly if Bunkerflaks and captured T-34´s are the answer to this lists I think that the motostrelkovy player can go to the bar or take a nap during two hours of gameplay and still be confident that they will win.


Not the answer. I'll be at the bar or the dealers hall, as well, if I had suspicion that those types of lists would appear in a tournament.

Soviet Pride wrote:
Could some one post an actual list that has any reasonable chance of defeating this motostrelkovy behemoth in a random mission and terrain setting and without being a copy/paste of the motostrelkovy list?


Nope.

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Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:41 pm
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PrivateSnafu wrote:
Its a tough nut to crack and, as everyone has rightly pointed out, the tools aren't there (SP's position) or the tactics aren't developed yet (your position).


That's why I want to play more V4 and dig deeper. My mind is not made up. It just seems to me there's too much emotional reaction and lot of considerations are being left out.

PrivateSnafu wrote:
The successes I had were using Panzer IV's in a stupidly expense role of delivering direct fire.


Their bombardment ability got a lot better. In the case of the above scenario even just two PzKw-IV-Ds will be more useful, even with re-rolls of hits. I think getting a 2+ against conscript AutoMotoStrelk might be doable even with rerolls.

PrivateSnafu wrote:
Honestly they aren't as bad as they seem. You get ROF3 at range - 6 shots. Its 2 less than a 4 tank platoon but stuff dies, its 6 and 1/2 dozen in my mind. They probably won't benefit from any movement changes in V4 and might be more susceptible to bombardments. You guys who know V4 can probably answer that, I can't.


Bunkerflaks are "tank teams", veterans. It won't be hard for them to Blitz into LOS, unleash a volley of six shots and duck back. Lord knows they have the range. They, as "tanks" are also, less susceptible to bombardments. I may just have to reconsider my own use of them...but man the cost!

PrivateSnafu wrote:
Smoke was working pretty good but a horrible waste of the units capacity. I was very close to buying a smoke launcher platoon or some nebs as my next EW purchase but, since the announcement of V4 I committed to not spending a lot on this muffler, and will strive to wait 6 mos at least before buying anything new. I refuse to chase "the list". Seems like smoke is not as effective in V4.


I don't blame you for not "list chasing", that's the genesis of my resistance to jump on Bunkerflaks. Mortars are an option that I think I tank force will have to make room for if it can. When ATGs are blocking a maneuver corridor, you're going to have to prep them first.

Smoke is more limited in V4 true. But it can be much more effective when it is used as now you target a spot on the ground and can lay it out were you want it. That really helps in getting it exactly where you need

PrivateSnafu wrote:
The two things I was having success with seem to be less effective. I just see things being harder.
PrivateSnafu wrote:

I don't know about that. I see the PzKw-IV and Bunkerflak as more useful, don't know if they are worth their fll proce though.

PrivateSnafu wrote:
edit : BTW good luck dealing with a T-34 with your PzIII's and PzIV's. Still have to be prepared for this possibility.


True, your Bunkerflaks would be most needed there! Same issue from V3 though.


Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:10 pm
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Does V4 still have awkward layout? If that's gone then BunkerFlak just become better?

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Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:43 pm
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Awkward layout is still in place but can be bypassed ussing movement orders.

Anyway ussing Bunkerflak is going to kill soviet artillery at a very slow rate, as everything with V4 template weapons are much more effective than direct fire when dealing with soft targets even the Panzer IV´s are more cost efficient than the bunkerflak in this sense.


Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:26 pm
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Iron-Tom wrote:

It just seems to me there's too much emotional reaction and lot of considerations are being left out.



No emotional reaction on my part I just wanted people to post counter lists to defeat the one I have posted... a list that would be quite hard to beat even in V3 but that has suddenly became significantly more resilient to damage and morale breaks and multiply by a dregree of magnitude its indirect fire capability without any drawbacks or point changes... if other lists havent expanded their performance in a similar manner, we have a serious balance issue and this motostrelkovy force is indeed "autoplay".

I have simply launch an hypothesis to be stress tested, it has nothing to do with emotions.


Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:38 pm
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There are plenty who seem emotional. I'm looking forward to testing out your lists.


Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:46 pm
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Soviet Pride wrote:
Awkward layout is still in place but can be bypassed ussing movement orders.

Anyway ussing Bunkerflak is going to kill soviet artillery at a very slow rate, as everything with V4 template weapons are much more effective than direct fire when dealing with soft targets even the Panzer IV´s are more cost efficient than the bunkerflak in this sense.


I forgot the gun teams have better saves now. I did use the BFlk to knock out guns so my tanks could advance safely. I have never used the bombardment for PzIV's. It may be a wash for the BFlk if I can get full rate of fire using the new orders. I'll get more shots and hits and they will make more saves, i'll need to do the math. I'm on the "list" for the new rule books to be mailed to me.

Can I direct fire smoke at a point on the ground like the smoke bombardments?

I'm surprised no one has mentioned infantry for the Panzerkompanie. I loath the idea. I don't want to paint them and besides I think they will just get chewed up anyway. At least with a pure tank force I can sort of ignore the infantry until I am ready for them. Oh crap I forgot I'll have less MG's now. I guess the PzI's will be getting a tune-up.

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Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:50 am
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Direct fire smoke targets teams.


Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:12 am
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