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100 point west german armoured 
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Private

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2014 12:26 pm
Posts: 29
Going by what I have at hand and with a minimal clue of the local meta (expecting some Hinds & BMPs), does my WIP list have a chance?
Code:
HQ
Leopard 2

Squad 1
3x Leopard 2
Squad 2
3x Leopard 2

3x M109G

2x Roland
2x Gepard

2x BO-105 PAH


Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:56 am
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First Sergeant

Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:04 pm
Posts: 2198
Location: NoVa
Yes it has a chance. The Leopard 2 is a tough tank.

From personal experience, I have found the LARS to be a better use of 7 points instead of the M109. My 155mm never see the board. The LARS with its mines work well in defense and offense.

I also quit bringing in the air. Having just 2 results in an easy death. Having 4 works well. But at 16 points, it is just too expensive.

Look at getting the Fielderst gruppe (sic). I manly use them to be my arty observer. And they are a great secondary AA unit, I use them when my Roland/Gepards still leave a plane/helicopter alive.

Along those lines, the Roland is a great AA weapon, so you can not go wrong with them. But they are a one trick pony. The Gepards in spite of their high ROF still leave aircraft alive. But they are great to use as an anti BMP platform.

So you need more AA, but play a few games to determine which one you want to bulk up on 1st.

Phil has ruled that tank platoons should be allowed to have 4 tanks. Ask your group about this, as it is not in the clarification document so many will not allow it. a four tank platoon gives you better flexibility and mitigates AT risk if you drop a tank platoon for infantry.


Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:20 pm
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Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2014 12:26 pm
Posts: 29
I've four of both SP-AAs. I've yet to finish assembling the last two Geppards due to track fitment issues. I've contacted BF-CS they sent out some which both helped & hindered - I now have a matching pair of warped tracks - but it's now the hulls that need some slight Dremeling.

Well, I do have a box of unassembled LARS, I was mainly wanting to use M109s due to their two shooting modes. Though if arty's having to shotgun a close tank something's gone seriously wrong.
Yeah, dropping the chopper's will free up points for something else, but I believe that most of the local Soviet players don't use dedicated AA & was planning on using them as a quick reaction force, till I just realised that they can't shoot if they moved that turn.

I was considering getting the Fliegerfaust Gruppe, just can't find it locally.

If it was a higher point game, I'd try for four strong Leopard 2 squads to run nine. I might be able to get away with running eight Leopard 2 at hundred points.
Now, it's just a matter of finding locals to play against. You'd think with three known club's & seven FLGS that I should be able to find someone to play against on the weekend, but if it's not 40k, MTG or X-Wing....

Edit: Yes, I've also just noticed the LARS do a pie plate template to the M109s saucer. Perhaps I'll replace the PAH's with them.


Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:53 pm
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Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2014 12:26 pm
Posts: 29
So I played a game, and as what happens my dice rolling sucked. Especially my rolling for bombardments. Therefore a list change.
I've also received advice that artillery isn't synergistic with West German tanks & to bring it out to support a full infantry list.

Code:
Leopard 2 Panzer Kompanie HQ (p.21) - 1x Leopard 2 (11 pts)

Leopard 2 Panzer Zug (p.22) - 3x Leopard 2 (33 pts)

Marder Panzergrenadier Zug (p.26) - 3x G3 Rifle with Panzerfaust 44 anti-tank rocket, 2x Milan missile, 3x Marder (7 pts)

Leopard 2 Panzer Zug (p.22) - 3x Leopard 2 (33 pts)

Jaguar 1 Jafdpanzer Zug (p.23) - 3x Jaguar 1 (6 pts)

Gepard Flakpanzer Batterie (p.32) - 4x Gepard (10 pts)


Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:00 pm
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First Sergeant

Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:04 pm
Posts: 2198
Location: NoVa
Bad rolling for arty is why I dropped the 155m for LARs.

Did you ask about using that 4th tank in a platoon? If you do that, you might be able to to drop 2 tanks saving 22 points. I think a Leo platoon with 4 tanks might be better than 2 platoons of 3. While 6 tanks is better than 4, the additional support with the cost savings might make this a good tradeoff. Apparently people have been winning with just a single platoon of 3.

Overall your new list is very good for a tank list. Your big problem is a BMP horde.


Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:55 pm
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Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2014 12:26 pm
Posts: 29
SECfootball wrote:
Bad rolling for arty is why I dropped the 155m for LARs.

The 109s when they hit were more successful then the LARS, when used against tanks. While with my rolls, the LARS didn't even touch Tanks, BMP's or infantry. Where did the LARS come from? I changed my list for the play test, dropping the PAH's & Rolands let me bring in the LARS and up the Gepard count to four.

Quote:
Did you ask about using that 4th tank in a platoon? If you do that, you might be able to to drop 2 tanks saving 22 points. I think a Leo platoon with 4 tanks might be better than 2 platoons of 3. While 6 tanks is better than 4, the additional support with the cost savings might make this a good tradeoff. Apparently people have been winning with just a single platoon of 3.

Overall your new list is very good for a tank list. Your big problem is a BMP horde.


They can see the point of using a four tank platoon, but when it comes to the Leopard 2, it's not something that they'd do at 100 points with a mainly tank list, as support for mech. inf. on the other hand, a four strong Leopard 2 platoons is a possibility. A four Leopard 1 platoon is something they'll use and many boxes of PSC's Leopard 1 will be bought once they arrive, for more than the expected Gepard option.

Edit: An addendum, however, there's a grand foobar of the club that won't let Leopard 1/2s be run in a 4 tank squad without the appropriate documentation from Battlefront, ie a printed card. He also thinks FoW V4's Looted Tank card is the funniest thing ever.


Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:08 pm
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Posts: 29
Yeah, I need to rework this list, five platoons are of cause vulnerable to reserve shenanigans - I should be running six platoons but I don't want to copy the other West German player. His list is:

Code:
Leopard 2 Panzer Kompanie HQ  - 1x Leopard 2

Leopard 2 Panzer Zug - 3x Leopard 2

Leopard 2 Panzer Zug - 3x Leopard 2

Jaguar 1 Jafdpanzer Zug  - 3x Jaguar 1

Gepard Flakpanzer Batterie - 4x Gepard
Fliegerfaust Gruppe - 2x Redeye Team
 
Luchs Spah Trupp  - 2x Luchs

Tornado Strike Flight - 2x Tornado
   
 6 platoons

As certain dice rolls give me grief, the unit I want to avoid should be pretty obvious.

Seven points to play with after dumping the Marder platoon and all I can think of doing is, either get a Luch & something(s) that's/totals six points or raid the Panzertruppen expansion to run a second formation consisting of a Fuchs Panzeraufkarungs Kompanie.

Or I leave the armoured company completely & go mechanised with armour support
Code:
Formation 1
Marder Panzergrenadier Kompanie HQ - 1x G3 Rifle, 1x Marder

Marder Panzergrenadier Zug  - 3x G3 Rifle with Panzerfaust 44 anti-tank rocket, 2x Milan missile, 3x Marder

Leopard 2 Panzer Zug - 3x Leopard 2

Jaguar 1 Jafdpanzer Zug  - 3x Jaguar 1

Gepard Flakpanzer Batterie  - 4x Gepard
    Fliegerfaust Gruppe - 2x Redeye Team

Luchs Spah Trupp - 2x Luchs

Formation 2
Fuchs Panzeraufklarungs Kompanie HQ - 1x G3 Rifle, 1x Fuchs

Fuchs Panzeraufklarungs Zug - 2x MG3 Rifle with Panzerfaust 44 anti-tank rocket, 1x Milan missile, 2x Fuchs

Fuchs Panzeraufklarungs Zug - 2x MG3 Rifle with Panzerfaust 44 anti-tank rocket, 1x Milan missile, 2x Fuchs

Leopard 2 Panzer Zug  - 3x Leopard 2 (option missing in the Panzertruppen booklet but is present on the Fuchs Panzeraufklarungs HQ card)
   9 platoons

I think I'd rather try and find something to fill seven points, ups the platoon count, will assist my Leopard 2s and -preferably - is not air or artillery over using a lower number of Leopard 2s.


Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:09 am
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Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2014 12:26 pm
Posts: 29
If this helps, this is what I have on hand to work with;
Attachment:
001.JPG
001.JPG
001.JPG [ 450.72 KiB | Viewed 620 times ]


Some are going to be three tone, the others olive drab.


Sun Aug 27, 2017 5:10 pm
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Technical Sergeant

Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:23 am
Posts: 836
SEC is spot on IMO.

LARS is for digging out blobs, plus a round of anti SPAMdrel smoke.

Under current rules, and depending on your local meta, if you can't see success with that many tanks, I'd suggest transitioning to more infantry. First replace the second core platoon, then your HQ.

Also, Lucas and Fliegerfaust over Rolands.


Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:38 am
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First Sergeant

Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:04 pm
Posts: 2198
Location: NoVa
@@If this helps, this is what I have on hand to work with;

That is a nice list to grab from. You do have some flexibility.

AA is you biggest flexible point. First, I notice that you have 4xfliedergruppe stands, the blister comes with 6, where are the other 2 stands?

With AA, what are your opponents lists contain? In my shop I usually have to fight against about 10 aircraft. There is a mix of hinds & frogfoots. Usually 6 of one and 4 of the other. Due to the expectation of 10 aircraft, I go with 4 rolands. I usually have 4 gepards and than 2-4 fliedergruppe stands.

I also run a lot of mech so either 1 or 2 Leopard 2 platoons. I also add in a single leopard 1 platoon as I do not own any jaguars.

Unfortunately I got two Mueller boxes and barely use one box, let alone 2 boxes. Turns out using seven Leopard 2s and four helicopters just does not work.


Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:26 pm
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Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2014 12:26 pm
Posts: 29
SECfootball wrote:
@@If this helps, this is what I have on hand to work with;

That is a nice list to grab from. You do have some flexibility.

AA is you biggest flexible point. First, I notice that you have 4xfliedergruppe stands, the blister comes with 6, where are the other 2 stands?
Still unbased in the blister
Quote:
With AA, what are your opponents lists contain? In my shop I usually have to fight against about 10 aircraft. There is a mix of hinds & frogfoots. Usually 6 of one and 4 of the other. Due to the expectation of 10 aircraft, I go with 4 rolands. I usually have 4 gepards and than 2-4 fliedergruppe stands.

If theyr'e using Frogfoots there's four of them. If they're using Hinds....six to twelve.


Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:18 am
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Corporal

Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 6:13 am
Posts: 126
Location: Fresno, CA
ARodH wrote:
SECfootball wrote:
@@If this helps, this is what I have on hand to work with;

That is a nice list to grab from. You do have some flexibility.

AA is you biggest flexible point. First, I notice that you have 4xfliedergruppe stands, the blister comes with 6, where are the other 2 stands?
Still unbased in the blister
Quote:
With AA, what are your opponents lists contain? In my shop I usually have to fight against about 10 aircraft. There is a mix of hinds & frogfoots. Usually 6 of one and 4 of the other. Due to the expectation of 10 aircraft, I go with 4 rolands. I usually have 4 gepards and than 2-4 fliedergruppe stands.

If theyr'e using Frogfoots there's four of them. If they're using Hinds....six to twelve.


My 100 pt Sov mec inf uses 6Hind & 4 Frogfoot.


Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:25 pm
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First Sergeant

Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:04 pm
Posts: 2198
Location: NoVa
So with 10+ aircraft. You really need to look at the list as a whole. 9 points sounds pricey for rolands. But they do a great job of minimizing enemy air. All you need to do is lose 1 Leo2 to air, to make you paranoid enough to bring 6 rolands.


Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:23 pm
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