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Other 15mm WW2 Rule Lists
http://forum.wwpd.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=20546
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Author:  fingolfen [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Other 15mm WW2 Rule Lists

Figured this probably needed its own topic at this point. I've got a lot invested in 15mm, and intend to keep playing FoW using V4 - mostly EW and LW - but I'm open to looking at other systems that are base compatible with FoW. I know there is supposed to be one out later this year - can't find the link though. Does anyone have any experience with the Battlegroup system? It looks like an order driven system with some reaction orders, and can be played in 15mm or 20mm with no conversions needed.

Author:  Iron-Tom [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Other 15mm WW2 Rule Lists

Battlegroup is a good game. It's very detailed and very realistic, but also is much slower to play. The basing is more designed for 1:1 but you can work around that with FoW basing,

If I were to switch to a new WW2 system, I'd go back to Bliztkrieg Commander, but that's more of a Brigade/Regiment/KG level game. A single tank model in that system represents a full platoon,

Good luck!

Author:  Mark [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Other 15mm WW2 Rule Lists

I have not played BG, but have heard similar comments to Tom's. Is it a "Company" level game? I looked at the book and saw table after table and may have passed on that alone early. Might have to look again though.
I enjoy CoC a lot, but it even "Big" does not need the same amount of stuff FoW does (although it is at 15mm in true scale).
Mustfa's Rommel is coming this summer I think.
Division of Steel and Men of Steel is coming later this year too - http://www.thewargameszone.org/1/Home (I got this from South Saxon in the v4 thread back Feb 13 -http://forum.wwpd.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=20320&start=150)

I hope what he says about it being compatible is true. Be nice to have some competition for BF at the "Company" level.

Author:  PrivateSnafu [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Other 15mm WW2 Rule Lists

Battlegroup uses individual figure removal so you need to make some sort of accommodation for that using FoW stands. Casualty caps would work but not perfectly with the TO&E's. A handful of individually based guys mixed with FoW bases would work as well.

Author:  Josh [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Other 15mm WW2 Rule Lists

Version 3 of Blitzkrieg Commander is coming out soon, so don't buy a rule book right away. It looks really good, never seen it played before though.

Author:  Iron-Tom [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Other 15mm WW2 Rule Lists

Rommel is a Division level game. 1 Tank model represents a whole tank company. It's played on a grid. Very different game from FoW is scale scope and focus.

Author:  fingolfen [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Other 15mm WW2 Rule Lists

Yeah, I generally prefer a WYSIWYG system - one tank = one tank - one infantry figure equals one guy (even if they're based together)...

Author:  fingolfen [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Other 15mm WW2 Rule Lists

PrivateSnafu wrote:
Battlegroup uses individual figure removal so you need to make some sort of accommodation for that using FoW stands. Casualty caps would work but not perfectly with the TO&E's. A handful of individually based guys mixed with FoW bases would work as well.


I took a glance through the TO&E - counters might work okay - adding a few guys on small bases shouldn't be too hard either.

Author:  piperider361 [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Other 15mm WW2 Rule Lists

Love Battlegroup...we have a small group of players in the NoVA area...eagerly awaiting Tobruk to come out!

It plays fine with FoW bases...some armies fit it better one for one (British @ 5 figs per base, Germans @ 3 or 5 figs per base), whereas some work best with some abstraction (Americans @ 6 or 7 per base...or use a 4 base + a 3 base?).

I really enjoy Battlegroups morale system (similar style to wings of war/glory for those who have played it) and the random activation system combined with tanks activating individually and squads as one....do I spend an activation on a whole squad of dudes, or a single tank?

Author:  Mark [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Other 15mm WW2 Rule Lists

piperider361 wrote:
Love Battlegroup...we have a small group of players in the NoVA area...eagerly awaiting Tobruk to come out!

It plays fine with FoW bases...some armies fit it better one for one (British @ 5 figs per base, Germans @ 3 or 5 figs per base), whereas some work best with some abstraction (Americans @ 6 or 7 per base...or use a 4 base + a 3 base?).

I really enjoy Battlegroups morale system (similar style to wings of war/glory for those who have played it) and the random activation system combined with tanks activating individually and squads as one....do I spend an activation on a whole squad of dudes, or a single tank?


hmm, I might have to pick this up and give it a try. Where do you guys play - Huzzah?

Author:  PrivateSnafu [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Other 15mm WW2 Rule Lists

piperider361 wrote:
Love Battlegroup...we have a small group of players in the NoVA area...eagerly awaiting Tobruk to come out!

It plays fine with FoW bases...some armies fit it better one for one (British @ 5 figs per base, Germans @ 3 or 5 figs per base), whereas some work best with some abstraction (Americans @ 6 or 7 per base...or use a 4 base + a 3 base?).

I really enjoy Battlegroups morale system (similar style to wings of war/glory for those who have played it) and the random activation system combined with tanks activating individually and squads as one....do I spend an activation on a whole squad of dudes, or a single tank?


You're using random activation? It's igougo. The amount you can activate is random and the other player had a good number of interrupt moves available.

Author:  Mameluke [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Other 15mm WW2 Rule Lists

If this thread isn't testament that V4 missed the mark, I don't know what is.

Author:  Vonrichthofen [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Other 15mm WW2 Rule Lists

While the V4 ruleset looks fine, the future with the whole packet sadly does not. Quite many people are looking for same now.

It seems that fow won't be good for tournament play for some time, with too and half versions going on at the same time.

Author:  Iron-Tom [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Other 15mm WW2 Rule Lists

While I certainly support folks looking at other 15mm WW2 games system, if tournaments is their biggest concer they might as well move right over to Bolt Action and 28mm. There's no real alternative for 15mm WW2 tournaments outside FoW that I've seen to date.

Author:  Mameluke [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Other 15mm WW2 Rule Lists

Vonrichthofen wrote:
While the V4 ruleset looks fine, the future with the whole packet sadly does not. Quite many people are looking for same now.

It seems that fow won't be good for tournament play for some time, with too and half versions going on at the same time.


Late war is my favorite period, and I have no clue when that'll be revisited. The current pathwork v3 books with V4 rules doesn't inspire me.

I really wish they'd just release a generic forces book.

Author:  webgriffin [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Other 15mm WW2 Rule Lists

Mameluke wrote:
I really wish they'd just release a generic forces book.


The problem is that if BF did this, we would rake them over the coals for releasing crappy lists.

The root cause of this problem for BF is the creation of two separate games / eras - MW and EW/LW. Anytime you go through repointing and a change to the force diagrams, you either do it all at once or not at all. The "rolling" update just adds angst.

I do feel for BF because they are damned if they do and damned if they don't. I do not feel sorry for them because they created this...

I do not remember - and I went back to look - this level of negativity around V2-V3. The complete vibe was so very different then.

Author:  Mark [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Other 15mm WW2 Rule Lists

webgriffin wrote:
Mameluke wrote:
I really wish they'd just release a generic forces book.


The problem is that if BF did this, we would rake them over the coals for releasing crappy lists.

The root cause of this problem for BF is the creation of two separate games / eras - MW and EW/LW. Anytime you go through repointing and a change to the force diagrams, you either do it all at once or not at all. The "rolling" update just adds angst.

I do feel for BF because they are damned if they do and damned if they don't. I do not feel sorry for them because they created this...

I do not remember - and I went back to look - this level of negativity around V2-V3. The complete vibe was so very different then.


If they had just kept the same point scale the transition for veteran players would be much easier. Additionally, they would have a much easier time re-releasing existing books with point adjustments.

Author:  piperider361 [ Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Other 15mm WW2 Rule Lists

PrivateSnafu wrote:
You're using random activation? It's igougo. The amount you can activate is random and the other player had a good number of interrupt moves available.

Yeah, that's what I meant. Not always being able to activate everyone.

Mark wrote:
hmm, I might have to pick this up and give it a try. Where do you guys play - Huzzah?

Sometimes Huzzah, sometimes my place. Happy to show you the game sometime if you'd like.

Author:  SECfootball [ Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Other 15mm WW2 Rule Lists

Supposedly Command Decision is revamping to allow FOW armies to be used. Unit scale is different 1 figure = platoon vice single tank.

Author:  fingolfen [ Tue May 02, 2017 5:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Other 15mm WW2 Rule Lists

What about "Mein Panzer"? Anyone have experience with it?

Author:  Mark [ Wed May 03, 2017 1:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Other 15mm WW2 Rule Lists

I picked up BG yesterday. Did a quick read of the rules. So far from what I see I like them and plan on giving them a good go for a while (at least until either FoW gets its act together or something new comes along). The main rulebook has been reprinted and is available for $30 (that's 140 pages). It's very nicely done.

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