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New Players for FoW 
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First Sergeant
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Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:42 pm
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Since BF seems to be gearing v4 to "new" players who find v3 too complex to get started, I wondered if that's how people really get started. In the past, I have introduced the game at HMGS conventions and taught many new players the game. None that I know of were interested in just picking up a book and miniatures and starting without either - a friend to do the same or an existing group playing (like at a FLGS).

So, does this "new" player that just picks up the FoW game without others exist?


Sun Apr 16, 2017 5:05 pm
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Technical Sergeant

Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:23 am
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Mark,
I suspect they do exist, but there is a tree falls in the woods with no one to hear it component. Do they even ever buy a whole army? Do they stick?

Certainly, most that stick have at least a regular opponent. Buying multiple armies for multiple eras would seem to depend on a regular play environment. If not tournaments then leagues or something.

We could all tell our origin stories. I saw the game at a lame LGS in another town. Had little interest. A buddy saw it and talked me into going to GenCon where Chris Fretts and his group taught us to play. We would have likely not gotten too far, but we found, after days of searching, a FOW LGS and got involved there.


Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:28 pm
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I was one of these players in 2007. I walked into a hobbytown and saw these cool WW2 miniatures. No idea a community existed. I have always viewed myself as a very amateur WW2 historian and thought a game would be cool with my 5 year old son. So I bought axis and allies because it was cheaper, but hated the random packs because I couldnt make a real army. So, I got past sticker shock and picked up a German and US force with infantry and tanks. Only after i gave them a very amateur paint job and my 5 year old couldnt keep up with the rules did I look for the community.

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Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:35 pm
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First Sergeant
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Weland wrote:
I was one of these players in 2007. I walked into a hobbytown and saw these cool WW2 miniatures. No idea a community existed. I have always viewed myself as a very amateur WW2 historian and thought a game would be cool with my 5 year old son. So I bought axis and allies because it was cheaper, but hated the random packs because I couldnt make a real army. So, I got past sticker shock and picked up a German and US force with infantry and tanks. Only after i gave them a very amateur paint job and my 5 year old couldnt keep up with the rules did I look for the community.


Interesting. Had you played miniatures before or was FoW your 2nd go?


Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:10 am
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Only bought some 40k for my son to play with. He always preferred tyranids over tanks. Otherwise, Zero miniature wargaming. I wouldnt even consider axis and allies a go because once I got home with the box I pretty much hated the random aspect. My wargaming was when I was kid I played squad leader and some other Avalon Hill games and then a ton of PC strategy games.

My opinion is that its a big world out there and many areas dont have clubs, so there are probably quit a few that buy FOW and just dont join the community. When I moved to CA from TN in 2009, the part of CA only had local 40k players. So I spent a lot of time building and painting forces to be ready for the day when I left CA to hopefully a location with a local community. I am currently in Germany with a small local club. I bet there are a few soldiers over here that dont know there is a community.

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Mon Apr 17, 2017 6:12 am
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We had a young man (early-mid teens) show up at the local store a couple weeks ago. He apparently had bought some models and taught himself to play the game at home. He was playing his first game against an opponent when he showed up at the store to participate in a V4 demo. Must say he was a quick study and already had a good understanding of the rules.

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Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:38 pm
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We have two new players, but they really came in on the tail end of V3. Our FoW group is a mere shadow of its former glory. We have a core half dozen who are happy with V4, but we once had about two dozen. None of those who dropped V3 have seemed to interested in coming back. These are guys who left long, years, before V4 was even announced. We do have a few new TY players, so maybe the TY/V4.


Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:00 pm
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I came to FoW in about 2008/9 originally. Went back to visit my wife's family in Ohio and the hobby/game store I'd patronized and worked at during grad school had a whole big section of Flames of War, so I picked up the rule book - liked it. Found one of the bigger gaming stores in Portland had it as well, and the rest is history. Originally we had a group of 10-12, but now we're down to 4-6 - and honestly I haven't been able to get out and play like I used to. We may have some new blood coming in with V4...

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Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:31 pm
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I came over from Squad Leader... and a span of 20+ years!

My son got into 40k and while checking out the store, I saw FoW. It took me about 2 years before I took the plunge because I knew I would fall for it in a big way. At the time, we had a pretty solid and vibrant FoW community. This was back in 2010/2011.

Joe Abrisz used to run a lot of tournaments in Madison and drew from Chicago, Indy and Minneapolis. Today, the FoW scene is basically on life support in Madison. However, that is not just due to BF...

1) Our store basically closed up and moved out of town
2) We had individuals get upset over codex creep and moved on to other systems. (their words, not mine)
3) We had been play testing for so long that it became work and not fun.
4) Individuals moved out of town / life got in the way

But my gateway was not another gaming system, it was "board wargames"... and maybe some computer based games as well.

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Mon Apr 17, 2017 6:02 pm
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Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:35 am
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Location: Helsinki, Finland
Here in Finland, I played my first game in maybe 2009 or so, after that we moved back to the capitol area, and there was quite many players at the time (10-12) in the club. After that, it has been going down with some 'new' blood from nearby towns and some new players as well, with many more dropping the game.

V4 is for me a new game, and Fow was something I really played with competitive view from the start, and playing in tournaments were my only games for years. I'm not looking forward to learn more simple game for this need.

I'm actually quite happy to drop all this serious gaming stuff and play just for having fun, as it probably should be.

All the best for anyone who plays v4 and hopefully you get new players as well, I will have new look at the game when they have moved from one front to forward.

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Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:09 am
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First Sergeant

Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:04 pm
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Weland wrote:
I was one of these players in 2007. I walked into a hobbytown and saw these cool WW2 miniatures. No idea a community existed. I have always viewed myself as a very amateur WW2 historian and thought a game would be cool with my 5 year old son. So I bought axis and allies because it was cheaper, but hated the random packs because I couldnt make a real army. So, I got past sticker shock and picked up a German and US force with infantry and tanks. Only after i gave them a very amateur paint job and my 5 year old couldnt keep up with the rules did I look for the community.



That is basically me. As a lark I walked into E&E back in 2005. Saw them playing WWII and with no experience or knowledge of any other miniature games started FOW. After playing FOW with full armies, I found out that there are other miniature games and size scales. Later I found out that you can buy stuff off the internet that is not e-buy.


Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:28 pm
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SECfootball wrote:
Weland wrote:
I was one of these players in 2007. I walked into a hobbytown and saw these cool WW2 miniatures. No idea a community existed. I have always viewed myself as a very amateur WW2 historian and thought a game would be cool with my 5 year old son. So I bought axis and allies because it was cheaper, but hated the random packs because I couldnt make a real army. So, I got past sticker shock and picked up a German and US force with infantry and tanks. Only after i gave them a very amateur paint job and my 5 year old couldnt keep up with the rules did I look for the community.



That is basically me. As a lark I walked into E&E back in 2005. Saw them playing WWII and with no experience or knowledge of any other miniature games started FOW. After playing FOW with full armies, I found out that there are other miniature games and size scales. Later I found out that you can buy stuff off the internet that is not e-buy.


In 2005 that might have been some of the I95 guys. Once we ran a huge Bar-B-Que-Rossa game in the back room of the old store with like 5k of EW stuff per side (using the old v1 PDFs).


Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:31 am
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I was at some of those games. When Doug moved out west to telegraph road, I did not get there as much. Now that he moved to Belle Haven I swing by after work a lot. Yes Mark, we have probably met over the years, then again maybe not. When Game parlor closed, I quit traveling west to game. I have never made it out Sterling. Just too long of a drive. Game Parlor was about as far away as going to G&S in Bowie.


Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:41 pm
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First Sergeant
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SECfootball wrote:
I was at some of those games. When Doug moved out west to telegraph road, I did not get there as much. Now that he moved to Belle Haven I swing by after work a lot. Yes Mark, we have probably met over the years, then again maybe not. When Game parlor closed, I quit traveling west to game. I have never made it out Sterling. Just too long of a drive. Game Parlor was about as far away as going to G&S in Bowie.


GP Chantilly. Used to play there a lot in v1/v2 days.


Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:29 pm
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I have recently picked up 4th Edition and start playing MW with a friend and we love it. We have never played with someone else.

We played a few games with v3 in Vietnam setting but never got hooked as we have done now. I think v4 is a lot better, more fun. It is a little sad that 90 % of the community is so EXTREMELY negative about the new version. Tried to listen to Why we fight podcast episode 14 but it is not possible. I have never heard so much negativity in any podcast from a bunch of grown men about a game. So much whining and crying it is almost humorous.


Thu Apr 27, 2017 12:47 pm
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Welcome andersb80. Glad you joined us. Please note our rule #1 "Don't be a dick." There's no need to make the same post in multiple threads. Your comments will be seen equally as well in any one of these "hot" threads.

Remember that WWF #14 was recorded quite some time ago. Perceptions may have changed as understanding (there clearly were some misunderstandings noted in WWF14) improved. Note the general changes in attitude in On the Road #8 which was recorded later than WWF14 but published earlier. In the end, V4 will not be for everybody. That's quite alright.

Thanks,

Tom


Thu Apr 27, 2017 1:36 pm
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Sorry about the multiple post, I did not intended that and have deleted the others.

Ok would be nice to hear what the opinion is after actually have been playing V4 for some games. Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion but I find it a bit strange to be so very upset before actually played the game.

The real bum for a new player like me (to get back on topic) is that I am is eager for listening to and learning from a fan podcast but the opportunity to do that is missed when all I hear is complaints and bitterness. Overall it is a bit sad to pick up a game and enthusiastically go out on internet to join the community but meet mostly negativity.


Thu Apr 27, 2017 1:51 pm
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I can understand that. Just remember that they may be a more vocal and persistent, but that does not make them automatically the majority tough it may seem so. As best as I can tell, all the players who do still play FoW in my general area KY, TN, IN, & OH seem to be moving on with V4 well enough. Any tournament that I could drive to over the next 6 months (save the US Team Tourney which was scheduled like a year ago) are using V4.

If you're looking for some impressions based of game play you may enjoy these AARs:

http://www.wwpd.net/2017/04/version-4-d ... swarm.html

http://www.wwpd.net/2017/03/no-retreat- ... es-of.html

http://www.wwpd.net/2017/03/no-retreat- ... t-aar.html

I'm pretty much OK with V4. Can't help it, I keep having good games with it. Well over a dozen games now and I'll be playing in my first full V4 Tournament this Saturday! Planning on playing V4 at NASCON, DIECON, and seven games of it at Historicon plus some Team Yankee. Hell I'm playing V4 tonight with one of our local new players!


Thu Apr 27, 2017 2:06 pm
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Thanks for the links, most appreciated!


Thu Apr 27, 2017 3:10 pm
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A friend who i play X-Wing with suddenly sent me pictures of some Flames of War stuff he was painting. I was also painting some miniatures for FoW. Neither of us had any idea about other people we might want to game with. We're both new with V4.

Then we saw the way the army books lack things and how you don't even get the rules for troop transports without buying cards, so we found a good number of the V3 books at used book stores/sites and we're doing V4 rules + V3 books + conversion booklet.


Tue May 16, 2017 2:05 am
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Corporal
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andersb80 wrote:
Sorry about the multiple post, I did not intended that and have deleted the others.

Ok would be nice to hear what the opinion is after actually have been playing V4 for some games. Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion but I find it a bit strange to be so very upset before actually played the game.

The real bum for a new player like me (to get back on topic) is that I am is eager for listening to and learning from a fan podcast but the opportunity to do that is missed when all I hear is complaints and bitterness. Overall it is a bit sad to pick up a game and enthusiastically go out on internet to join the community but meet mostly negativity.


I have played about 10 games of V4, and have liked it each time. I haven't seen the same problems others have, but to be fair, I haven't played in a tournament yet. I think the game moves faster than V3, and I am still wrapping my head around command radius and last stand checks with regard to how models are positioned. There are some subtle aspects of the rules I've not quite got yet, even 10 games in.

I am keeping my armies, and eager for more games. I'll be playing team Yankee and the LW doubles at Historicon this year, and they will likely be my next major tournament.

Keep painting up those minis!


Tue May 16, 2017 2:13 pm
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I've played about six games and have enjoyed it. Never played any previous version. I'm using the conversion document and V3 books though, not the new Mid War books and cards.

I'm going to keep expanding my collection. I can't say for sure that FoW will be my go to rules set though. Battlegroup keeps coming up as an alternative way to use my miniatures. Since I'm not finding too many other Flames of War players locally, it seems like I'm providing all the miniatures for both sides and hosting the game, so I may as well go with a little more of an evocative rules set.


Wed May 17, 2017 6:10 am
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Yeah, I've been entirely converting LW books into V4. I haven't played the MW yet, since the lack of models didn't appeal to me. I love churchills, and they aren't on the menu just yet. I did grab the Desert rats starter box though, and plan to make a fully based desert army eventually. But it might be Americans since that is an army I've never done yet.


Wed May 17, 2017 12:42 pm
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