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Light tank SPAM 
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Technical Sergeant

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Is it going to cause an issue? Has anyone tried it much?


Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:29 am
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It does not seem to be an issue so far, but that does not mean it does not have the potential to become so.

At the tournament in Indianapolis last weekend a relatively new player came in 4th out of 16 running a Crusader, Honey, and US Rifle force. I'm not sure of what his match ups were, but I was surprised to see him do that well.

What we have not seen yet are "ACE" players trying to break it like was done with the BAR under V3. That could be coming, but the way swarms bleed points may dissaude them from trying light tank swans to get to the top. They might do well with them, but maybe not well enough.


Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:10 pm
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Iron-Tom wrote:
It does not seem to be an issue so far, but that does not mean it does not have the potential to become so.

At the tournament in Indianapolis last weekend a relatively new player came in 4th out of 16 running a Crusader, Honey, and US Rifle force. I'm not sure of what his match ups were, but I was surprised to see him do that well.

What we have not seen yet are "ACE" players trying to break it like was done with the BAR under V3. That could be coming, but the way swarms bleed points may dissaude them from trying light tank swans to get to the top. They might do well with them, but maybe not well enough.


BAR was v2 and some of us were hardly "ACE" players - which was kind of the point about the play balance of the BAR.


Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:07 pm
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I mostly recall Ed Lealand as leading the charge with the BAR. I thought a lot of him as a player...as in "Ace."

But so far neither "Ace" players or us mere mortals have seemed to dominate with multiple Light Tank formations in tournaments...yet. If I end up playing Allies at Advance the Colors, I could possibly try two Crusader Squadrons as my second one is nearing completion. But if they are short Axis players, I'll likely run DAK like I did last weekend.


Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:42 pm
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Technical Sergeant

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Things generally show up as problematic before they get to tournaments. The tournaments then become the proof it's actually a thing. The problem we have now is the same from early V2. The tournament scene is too small outside a couple places (eastern US, UK) to have meaning. This, I'm sure, makes the studio happy, but it's likely not good for the business office.

Also, there is generally a top player finding issues. Like the BAR, it's proven a thing when the better than average players can show up and smack folks around using a build.


Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:47 pm
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Private First Class

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There is no U.K. Tourne scene for v4 MW non of the main tourne players seem to like it.


Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:07 pm
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Iron-Tom wrote:
I mostly recall Ed Lealand as leading the charge with the BAR. I thought a lot of him as a player...as in "Ace."

But so far neither "Ace" players or us mere mortals have seemed to dominate with multiple Light Tank formations in tournaments...yet. If I end up playing Allies at Advance the Colors, I could possibly try two Crusader Squadrons as my second one is nearing completion. But if they are short Axis players, I'll likely run DAK like I did last weekend.


Not sure what "leading the charge" means. But, I never met Ed until HCon 2011 (BAR on BAR tournament action), but I do remember being on the FoW forum with Eric and others telling people how broken it was for months. All I got back was stupidity. Then after the tournament, we got a Browning Automatic Rifle joke from New Zealand. My $300 doorstop is one of the reasons I don't play this game any longer. I think I still check this forum out of habit. :shock:


Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:13 pm
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Maybe Ed won Nationals with the BAR that year and that's why I tend to think of him when it comes to the old BAR issue.


Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:01 am
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UndergroundWarren wrote:
Things generally show up as problematic before they get to tournaments. The tournaments then become the proof it's actually a thing. The problem we have now is the same from early V2. The tournament scene is too small outside a couple places (eastern US, UK) to have meaning. This, I'm sure, makes the studio happy, but it's likely not good for the business office.

Also, there is generally a top player finding issues. Like the BAR, it's proven a thing when the better than average players can show up and smack folks around using a build.


Its been five months now and I've been to four out of the five MW FoW tournaments I know of in the Eastern US since V4. As far as I can tell Multiple Light Tank formations have yet to make it into the top three in any of those tournaments, let alone win, and let alone played by average players. I seem to recall the BAR being a lot more dramatic and immediate in its impact. Something like 7 of the top 10 spots at Historicon before the big nerf.

Advance the Colors is the next Eastern V4 FoW tournament and next opportunity for multiple light tank formation forces to dominate. It's an 80 point event. Maybe I should just skip taking my DAK and go ahead a accelerate completion of my 2nd Crusader Squadron for ATC?


Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:13 am
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I have a different problem with light tank spam.

1. Cost. I cant afford all of those tanks.
2. Tank park. There were approx 250 Honey's at Gazala. I can deploy 20% of those on a table!!!!!! The game looks more like napoleonics with tanks!
3. V3 to V4 upgrade. A 1500 pt grant / honey force in the V3 books would be 11 grants and 13 honeys plus support -- 24 tanks. A 100 point force in V4 has an additional 13 honeys or crusaders. So thats 50% more tanks just to play the same force.


Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:17 am
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Technical Sergeant

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It's not a problem if no one does it or it's not effective.

You can add more Grants and less honeys, but you won't catch as many flies. Hehe.


Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:57 am
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Nick Bowler wrote:
I have a different problem with light tank spam.

1. Cost. I cant afford all of those tanks.


Can't help you there. DAK with small elite forces is a better option for many $'s wise.

Quote:
2. Tank park. There were approx 250 Honey's at Gazala. I can deploy 20% of those on a table!!!!!! The game looks more like napoleonics with tanks!


What's new? Seems like I've been hearing about this in FoW since I've started playing it.

Quote:
3. V3 to V4 upgrade. A 1500 pt grant / honey force in the V3 books would be 11 grants and 13 honeys plus support -- 24 tanks. A 100 point force in V4 has an additional 13 honeys or crusaders. So thats 50% more tanks just to play the same force.


The math has me scratching my head here. In V4, 11 Grants I think would be 66 points. 13 Honeys would be 22pts. 88 points total. Would not the "plus support" take up much of those remaining 12 points?

Of course you'd not "have" to spend all of those 12 points on more Honeys. You could allocate those points to some Command Cards to the Honeys you already have. Scout Tanks (1pt), John Currie (8pts), and maybe Planned Raid (3pts) could be a way to use many of the left over points if you wanted to run your Grants and Honeys with minimal support and without adding new models. I'd recommend taking more support though.


Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:25 pm
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Nick Bowler wrote:
I have a different problem with light tank spam.

3. V3 to V4 upgrade. A 1500 pt grant / honey force in the V3 books would be 11 grants and 13 honeys plus support -- 24 tanks. A 100 point force in V4 has an additional 13 honeys or crusaders. So thats 50% more tanks just to play the same force.


I don't know if this is supposed to be hyperbole or mistaken belief.

Looking at my V3 1675 Point British Heavy Armoured Squadron list, 1405 points are 12 Grants (Including Pip) and 6 Honey's, the remaining 270 points is UCs with .50 cal and Limited Hurricanes.

Now the only time you would see multiple formations in V3 would be at doubles events or some other special circumstance. Even if you did see them though, looking at my North Africa book, 11 Grants cost 1025 points and 13 Honeys cost 605 points so 1630 not including support.

Now to your main point, I agree that being able to field Regiment in what used to be a Company / Battalion level game is an issue for me.
Am I the only one that misses the V1 restrictions on Combat Platoons to Support Ratio? I get that this approach isn't conducive to selling stupid quantities of miniatures but still.


Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:25 pm
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Just Some Dude wrote:

Now the only time you would see multiple formations in V3 would be at doubles events or some other special circumstance.

One of the few I remember .

Soviet Mixed Tankovy (Red Army) , from Eastern Front

Mixed Tankovy Battalion HQ - use a tank from a combat company (0 pts)

T-26 Tankovy Company - 10x T-26S obr 1939 (205 pts)

T-26 Tankovy Company - 10x T-26S obr 1939 (205 pts)

T-26 Tankovy Company - 10x T-26S obr 1939 (205 pts)

Light Armoured Car Platoon - 3x BA-64 (75 pts)

Mixed Tankovy Battalion HQ - use a tank from a combat company (0 pts)

T-26 Tankovy Company - 10x T-26S obr 1939 (205 pts)

T-26 Tankovy Company - 10x T-26S obr 1939 (205 pts)

T-26 Tankovy Company - 10x T-26S obr 1939 (205 pts)

Light Armoured Car Platoon - 3x BA-64 (75 pts)


Air Support - Limited I-153 (120 pts)


1500 Points, 8 Platoons

LES

_________________
We stand at the gates of Berlin With two and a half million men With six thousand tanks in our ranks


Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:53 pm
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So I did end up taking two Crusader squadrons to Advance the Colors (MW @ 80pts) . 32 Crusaders w/ Hurricanes, UCs, and cards.

I'm doing a full AAR that I'll post later....spoiler....I came in 4th out of 18 players.


Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:08 pm
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