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Fighting First 
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Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:47 am
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Stats are here:

http://www.breakthroughassault.co.uk/fi ... in-mid-war

M3s are hit on 2+ :shock:


Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:12 pm
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Down to a 28" range on the M4A1 Gun as well, although the M10 is up to 36". Sure is alot more diversity in weapons range-bands now.

I wonder if they will even bump T-34's down to 24" range on the main gun, as they are going to surely push the "inefficient conscript horde" faction design.

And then (just like there is a command card for M3's to lose that 2+ hit trait), give Soviets a command card option for "Guards" troops, that bumps the range back up to 28" again.

Not saying its either good or bad, but use of cards in this way can lead to some creativity, if used correctly.


Mon Aug 07, 2017 3:51 am
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http://bel-podcast.blogspot.co.uk/2017/ ... es-in.html

So NO 60mm mortars in the rifle coy, !

LES

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Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:10 pm
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lap1964 wrote:
http://bel-podcast.blogspot.co.uk/2017/08/review-fighting-first-us-forces-in.html

So NO 60mm mortars in the rifle coy, !

LES
My store had the book, and there are 60mm mortars. I just do not remember if they are with the AI or infantry only or both.


Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:52 pm
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Sadly no M3 75mm GMC... :(

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Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:48 pm
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SECfootball wrote:
My store had the book, and there are 60mm mortars. I just do not remember if they are with the AI or infantry only or both.


Its listed for the AI and Armoured Recon patrol , but no card is shown in the article for the rifle coy . Seems odd to me as its on the sprue , so they haven't got to make a new model . :?

LES

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Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:31 pm
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Found the answer to the 60mm mortar .

http://www.flamesofwar.com/Default.aspx ... =2#1472818
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Phil at Battlefront
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09 Aug 2017 12:17 AM

The Weapons platoon was typically broken up in action, with the machine-guns being assigned to the platoons (they are optional extras for a Rifle Platoon), and the mortars acting as a small mortar battery. As there is very little difference (aside from number of tubes) between the company mortars of the Weapons Platoon and the battalion mortars, we combined these into a single card. For your weapons platoon, you simply take a 3-strong mortar platoon.

Cheers


LES

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Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:45 pm
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Yup there you have it 60mm mortars are almost identical to 81mm mortars
Might as well play Bolt Action


Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:49 am
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So 60mm mortars have disapeared fron the US rifle companies?


Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:24 am
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Truscott Trotter wrote:
Yup there you have it 60mm mortars are almost identical to 81mm mortars
Might as well play Bolt Action


Ouch! That's gotta hurt.


Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:08 pm
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Not sure everyone still watches the FoW forums, but the parallel thread to this one has Chris@BF confirm that no GMC 75s will be produced, nor will they be in lists. Reason given is paring down the SKUs.


Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:35 am
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Mark wrote:
Not sure everyone still watches the FoW forums, but the parallel thread to this one has Chris@BF confirm that no GMC 75s will be produced, nor will they be in lists. Reason given is paring down the SKUs.


http://www.flamesofwar.com/Default.aspx ... =2#1473094
Quote:

Chris at Battlefront
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13 Aug 2017 11:12 PM

Posted By ZeeWulf on 09 Aug 2017 04:39 AM
Hey Phil, how about the M3/M3A1 GMC TD's absence, as well as the loss of the 37mm from the Armored Rifles?



Hi ZeeWulf,

asked Phil about the 37mm guns and he said: "in the end it came down to playability. Having a single gun in an infantry platoon introduces a pile of complexities that are just not worth it. Instead, we decided to go with the option often followed (and formalised in the 1943 TOE) of grouping the 37mm guns into a company AT Platoon. This is both simpler in play, and gives the advantage of providing enough punch in the critical place to be significant while not burdening mobile operations with cumbersome guns."


As for the GMC this came down to miniatures range and popularity. We have been making some conscious decisions as a company about how big the supporting releases will be for each book, trying to ensure that we have a good range of options for players whilst still keeping it manageable for retailers. The Flames Of War range has grown to the point where it is too wide for the majority of retailers to stock effectively and if they cannot stock it, customers cannot easily get it.

In the case of the GMC we looked as the sales of it over it's lifetime and the reports from play testers about how it was performing on the table relative to other options and it was decided that we would not include it in the book. Moving forward we are going to have to continue to make tough choices about what is in the books and what is not. We don't make them lightly and we (as a team) definitely have robust discussion before committing to leaving anything out a book.

Chris


So if they think it won't sell enough , it won't be in the list !

LES

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Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:40 am
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So... is this a model we won't be able to get once current stock is depleted?


Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:41 am
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Troy wrote:
So... is this a model we won't be able to get once current stock is depleted?


Sounds as if... :(

Well - we'll always have V3...

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Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:01 am
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This from the company that gave us the Diana, Mid war Monsters, IS85 etc can't justify the M3 GMC?

Are they that broke?


Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:53 am
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Well they have made the decision to reduce the number of FOW references to half (confirmed by an former BF worker that was in the meeting that settled the issue).

Dont know if they are broke, but certainly their business model has changed to one on which an extensive catalogue is no longer possible.


Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:27 am
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Early in the discussions on how this would all work, these types of models were supposed to become special order only.

The problem is, if they take them out of the game completely, they've just pulled a GW move. Many of your models can now be stored with your space dwarves.


Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:56 pm
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UndergroundWarren wrote:
Early in the discussions on how this would all work, these types of models were supposed to become special order only.

The problem is, if they take them out of the game completely, they've just pulled a GW move. Many of your models can now be stored with your space dwarves.


Heck, at least in 40K GW is on a tear... Every miniature that isn't tied down... apart from the Squats.. is getting new rules... And they had conversion books for every army at the outset...

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Mon Aug 14, 2017 3:06 pm
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Soviet Pride wrote:
Well they have made the decision to reduce the number of FOW references to half (confirmed by an former BF worker that was in the meeting that settled the issue).

Dont know if they are broke, but certainly their business model has changed to one on which an extensive catalogue is no longer possible.


What confuses this direction is they are currently setup to release a SKU everytime the same model requires a different card...


Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:21 pm
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They're trying to make it like X Wing, but people who play X Wing probably didn't have massive collections of minis without cards before the cards became a more or less necessary part of the game. Silly.


Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:04 pm
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fingolfen wrote:
Sadly no M3 75mm GMC... :(


Nor any GMCs for the USMC in the Pacific, whenever/if ever that theater gets updated, I guess.

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Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:28 am
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Before jumping to conclusions here it might be worthwhile to revisit what Chris actually posted.

"Moving forward we are going to have to continue to make tough choices about what is in the books and what is not."

We have been making some conscious decisions as a company about how big the supporting releases will be for each book,

All BF are saying is the post is that the M3 75mm GMC will not be in this book and will not be part of this book's release.

It did not say that BF is removing US101 M3 75mm GMC and US100 M6 37mm GMC from direct order. Just like the fact that my Crusaders cam out in plastic has not meant that I still cannot get a single BR034 Crusader III. Hell we can still buy a GE217 SdKfz 254 and I’m not sure we’ve ever actually had any rules/stats for that vehicle in FoW. I’m pretty sure BF is not planning on dumping their entire resin/metal direct order line anytime soon if ever. Does anybody have confirmation/proof of this?

I know its dissatisfying for us as completionist, but its all about rotation of stock. I suppose BF feels that it needs to focus that limited retailer shelf space on cyclic push packages. They realize that the entire BF line cannot be stocked by any LGS. Not even all of the new V4 MW line will be able to be stocked by a LGS all at once. The plan, I think, is to release a book with its related releases over a period of about three months. Just as the next book and releases become the new focus, new kits hopefully will be filling the vacancies from kits that were picked up with the previous release. I’m not sure that ongoing strategy has anything to do with direct order of single blisters for the existing line. Maybe I’m wrong but I’ve not seen anything official about single blister packs going completely away from direct order.

I’m not holding out hope, but this is possibly not going to be the only US MW books and possibly not the only US MW Command Card pack coming up. We know 57mm ATGs are not going to be in either but we know they will surely be needed for Sicily. How will these be worked in? Wild cards? Will “wild cards” then possibly allow for something like a M3 75mm GMC and M37 GMC being swapped in for M10s or something at some point? I don’t know, but I’m not sure any of us do.

Even it is just going to be “that way” its only a issue in the tournament world. If I’m doing a historical scenario or campaign I do not need BF to come up with stats or cards for any piece of kit I might need but they don’t cover. I’m pretty sure I can come up with stats for the M3 75mm GMC in about a minute, and if I’m using it in a historical scenario I don’t care about its “points” to begin with. No self-respecting Grognard needs BF to cover gaps like this outside of the “official tournaments.”


Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:56 am
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Diesel and Dust have a podcast review up on the new book:

http://www.panzerangriff.org.au/2017/08 ... pisode-29/


Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:59 am
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Tom,
My problem with your analysis is that the only reason for them to change their plans is to change them from how they are representing them now. If you are leaving things out of the books to reduce SKUs for retailers, adding them again later doesn't really accomplish anything.


Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:15 am
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Iron-Tom wrote:
Before jumping to conclusions here it might be worthwhile to revisit what Chris actually posted.

"Moving forward we are going to have to continue to make tough choices about what is in the books and what is not."

We have been making some conscious decisions as a company about how big the supporting releases will be for each book,

All BF are saying is the post is that the M3 75mm GMC will not be in this book and will not be part of this book's release.

It did not say that BF is removing US101 M3 75mm GMC and US100 M6 37mm GMC from direct order. Just like the fact that my Crusaders cam out in plastic has not meant that I still cannot get a single BR034 Crusader III. Hell we can still buy a GE217 SdKfz 254 and I’m not sure we’ve ever actually had any rules/stats for that vehicle in FoW. I’m pretty sure BF is not planning on dumping their entire resin/metal direct order line anytime soon if ever. Does anybody have confirmation/proof of this?

I know its dissatisfying for us as completionist, but its all about rotation of stock. I suppose BF feels that it needs to focus that limited retailer shelf space on cyclic push packages. They realize that the entire BF line cannot be stocked by any LGS. Not even all of the new V4 MW line will be able to be stocked by a LGS all at once. The plan, I think, is to release a book with its related releases over a period of about three months. Just as the next book and releases become the new focus, new kits hopefully will be filling the vacancies from kits that were picked up with the previous release. I’m not sure that ongoing strategy has anything to do with direct order of single blisters for the existing line. Maybe I’m wrong but I’ve not seen anything official about single blister packs going completely away from direct order.

I’m not holding out hope, but this is possibly not going to be the only US MW books and possibly not the only US MW Command Card pack coming up. We know 57mm ATGs are not going to be in either but we know they will surely be needed for Sicily. How will these be worked in? Wild cards? Will “wild cards” then possibly allow for something like a M3 75mm GMC and M37 GMC being swapped in for M10s or something at some point? I don’t know, but I’m not sure any of us do.

Even it is just going to be “that way” its only a issue in the tournament world. If I’m doing a historical scenario or campaign I do not need BF to come up with stats or cards for any piece of kit I might need but they don’t cover. I’m pretty sure I can come up with stats for the M3 75mm GMC in about a minute, and if I’m using it in a historical scenario I don’t care about its “points” to begin with. No self-respecting Grognard needs BF to cover gaps like this outside of the “official tournaments.”


I'm sorry, but I'm going to disagree with you there. I honestly believe that BF lost shelf space in local gaming stores not because of the proliferations of SKUs, but because of other business issues - including problems actually providing product and an overall drop in demand for the game as V3 aged. There are plenty of games out there that take up a hell of a lot more shelf space than Flames of War ever did at its peak, and continue to... difference is they're flying off the shelf at this point. To a certain extent, if you build it they will come. Instead BF seems to be paring down the game and its rules to suit the new business model rather than to make a solid game, which is a bad idea IMHO.

Also, why would BF continue to manufacture models for which there are no rules? You keep saying that we should pin our hopes on unannounced products... but in the notes from the Historicon Q&A with Pete I saw no mention of a Sicily book... I saw a potential airborne book, a new British book, a new German book... and we haven't even touched the Eastern Front yet. I don't know about you, but I'm not sure the Russian players are going to hang around until this trickle down release schedule gets to them.

It's just too much rationalization for me... :(

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Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:45 am
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