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V4 Autoplay Tankovy 
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TANKOVY BATALON- CONFIDENT TRAINED

45 Tankovy Batalon HQ (Lee)
350 Tankovy Company (Leex10)
350 Tankovy Company (Leex10)
260 Tankovy Company (Matildasx10)
95 Motorised Mortar Company (Red Army)
230 Tank Killer Company (SU-100 x3)
130 Guards Rocket Mortar Battalion (4x2 Katiushas and observer)
290 Priority Air Support (Il-2M Tip 3M Shturmovik)
1750 Total

Already a very competitive list under V3, this tankovy will kick some serious ass under the V4 rules since its benefit from the new big units morale rules, has cheap but devastating artillery and an excelent tank killer in the air support (6 AT-12 FP-4+, side shoots every time it arrives).


Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:10 am
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It's certainly a strong list and I agree that V4 makes it even stronger. The Shturmoviks will be killers for sure. And it just has three TSs and no ATGs yet still is awesome. Cool, but like you said it was pretty darn good in V3 already. I like that the Matildas can dash forward to get in close while the enemy is likely focused on the SUs and Lee's at longer ranges. Just watch out drawing the defender role in No Retreat and Bridgehead.

I won't be running it as all my M3's will be Grants for the Desert, but I'd like to play against it. I might try something similar based on T-34s. I do have a bunch of them.


Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:25 pm
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Iron-Tom wrote:
Just watch out drawing the defender role in No Retreat and Bridgehead.


You know thats impossible if you are ussing the battle plans which seems to be the default method for match making in a competitive setting.

Randomly rolling who is the attacker, the anihilation mission or the cards (since all the cards info is already in the books) are just in the game for people to learn the basics.

I also think that T-34´s will mostly work instead of Lees or you could pick Zis-2 / Zis-3 instead of the Matildas... but those are variants over the same force.

Anyway, the real question is what could stop this behemoth on the V4 tabletop?


Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:18 am
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Same concept, but ussing T-34´s instead of Lend Lease tanks and adding a ton of Zis-3 instead of the Matildas

TANKOVY BATALON (RED ARMY)
70 Tankovy Batalon HQ T-34/85
440 Tankovy Company 3x T34/85 and 7x T34/76
350 Tankovy Company 10x T34/76
230 Medium Assault Gun Company 3 x SU-100
240 Motorised Artillery Battalion 12 x Zis-3
130 Guards Rocket Mortar Battalion 4x2 Katisuhas + observer.
290 Air Support 3 x Il-2M Tip 3M Shturmovik
1750 Total CONFIDENT TRAINED

Desperate Measures - Soviet Late-War - v4

Aparently the Zis-3 are ment to be deployed in 3 units of 4 guns, altough the forces layout show a single unit... anyway is a lot of artillery support and staying power if you have to defend, so I think this list is a more "all terrain" than the Lend Lease one even if you loose a bit of assault capability.


Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:41 am
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Thanks for the T-34 list. That's something I could almost run wit my collection.

I'm not sure what TOs will do about match ups and missions under V4. I will not use the Battle Plans PDF for the events I run if it lets forces like this hide from deep reserves. If the all out Infantry/gun player has to be prepared to attack, then the all out attack player must be able to prepared to defend in missions like No Retreat and Bridgehead. I'm not sure I like the missions being different across a single round anyway, so I was already not keen on the PDFs suggestion. Now I may really hate it!


Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:40 pm
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Well Tom you have pointed out one of the many flaws of V4. IMHO if you force tank company players to defend in a no retreat mission thats the nail in the coffin for tank companies in V4, much better to take infantry based forces and relegate the tanks to a single unit for counteracctack or mop-up duties.

Nevertheless the T-34 list can defend itself perfectly in a no retreat or brighead scenario, those Zis-3 batteries can withstand a lot of punishment.


Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:31 pm
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If I had to plan for defending, and since this formation is mostly unbreakable since almost every thing is a combat/weapon unit, I would pick up this Motostrelkovy from Desperate measures... It will still attack quite good since most of the killing will be done by the 5 template weapons anyway.

MOTOSTRELKOVY BATALON (RED ARMY)

40 Motostrelkovy Batalon HQ (Red Army)
165 Motostrelkovy Company 1 platoon (Red Army)
165 Motostrelkovy Company 1 platoon(Red Army)
410 Tankovy Company 2xT34/85 and 8xT34/76 (Red Army)
240 Motorised Artillery Battalion 12x Zis-3 (Red Army)
310 Medium Assault Gun Company 4xSU-100 (Red Army)
130 Guards Rocket Mortar Battalion 4x2 Katys + Observer
290 Air Support 3x Tip3M Sturmoviks
1750 Total CONFIDENT TRAINED

Desperate Measures - Soviet Late-War - v4


Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:48 pm
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Soviet Pride wrote:
Nevertheless the T-34 list can defend itself perfectly in a no retreat or brighead scenario, those Zis-3 batteries can withstand a lot of punishment.


Good to know as I don't see many TOs using that PDF anyway. I'd not mind seeing Soviets getting a bit more viable in V4. V3 killed them for me outside of historical scenario & campaign gaming, I have a lot of Soviet kit that might be fun to shake the dust off of.


Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:19 pm
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Zis guns are awesome...

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Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:27 pm
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...yes is so awesome to take advantage of a mass unit discount in cost for an actual advantage (multiple bombardments) when you take a dozen together with an increased save and artillery firepower for a ridiculous price... negative guys will called this "broken", but its probably better to have "fun" with them before they are nerfed.


Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:59 pm
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Don't forget, Zis-3s took a nerf to their bombardment AT value and are now more vulnerable to repeat bombardments from even medium mortars. Their cross-country tactical move dropped as well. And don't forget that they are still "Heavy" guns and only got a bump to 4+ save.


Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:50 pm
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Zis-3 were never ment to bombard tanks (any heavy will be vaporized by the uber Trip3m cannons) and being a gun they arent suppose to trasverse terrain (and btw they are medium guns that move like light ones). Mortars are always a concern, but I have 4 template weapons for less than 400 points... Im quite confident I could win most artillery duels.

If those are the main flaws of the list, this one is certainly autoplay.


Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:10 am
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And don't forget that they are Zis guns with White Scout Cars / ".50cal cars of glory!"

I still profess that the one reason you don't see this on the table that much is the sheer cost of the platoon. That will change in V4.

BTW - Buy the guns from PSC and buy the cars from Old Glory... saves a TON of cash. I know when I was buying them a certain "Eric" from a certain state "Virginia / VA" was right there with me!

If you have never seen this platoon in action, try something for me: use paper or blank stands and run the platoon. When I was actively playtesting, this was a platoon I frequently ran...

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Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:05 pm
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webgriffin wrote:
And don't forget that they are Zis guns with White Scout Cars / ".50cal cars of glory!"

I still profess that the one reason you don't see this on the table that much is the sheer cost of the platoon. That will change in V4.

BTW - Buy the guns from PSC and buy the cars from Old Glory... saves a TON of cash. I know when I was buying them a certain "Eric" from a certain state "Virginia / VA" was right there with me!

If you have never seen this platoon in action, try something for me: use paper or blank stands and run the platoon. When I was actively playtesting, this was a platoon I frequently ran...


or you don't have the energy to paint them all! :lol:


Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:03 pm
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webgriffin wrote:
And don't forget that they are Zis guns with White Scout Cars / ".50cal cars of glory!"

I still profess that the one reason you don't see this on the table that much is the sheer cost of the platoon. That will change in V4.


I've already faced it in V3. The last time being at Wolfkrieg 2017.


Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:21 pm
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webgriffin wrote:
And don't forget that they are Zis guns with White Scout Cars / ".50cal cars of glory!"

I still profess that the one reason you don't see this on the table that much is the sheer cost of the platoon. That will change in V4.


Yep but don't forget in RB(revised) the M3A1 SC .50 cals are passenger fired, DM the jury is still out ( as in waiting for Greg form EA) as in the book they aren't PFed, in Forces they are . :o

As for the M2/3 HT , i'm still trying to work out what the stats mean !

M2 or M3 half-tracks Half-tracked 1 0 0 Optional Passenger-fired .50 cal AA MG.
M2 or M3 half-tracks with .50 cal AA MG Half-tracked 1 0 0 .50 cal AA MG.

So is the .50 cal meant to be passenger fired or not ? :?

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Last edited by lap1964 on Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Mar 22, 2017 4:18 pm
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Soviet Pride wrote:
Zis-3 were never ment to bombard tanks


Good to know since that option for them is much less effective in V4.

Soviet Pride wrote:
(any heavy will be vaporized by the uber Trip3m cannons)


They are showing up in only half the turns on average, assuming enemy air does not drive those odds lower. When they do show up they can be spectacular, but they still have to hit (50/50) on vets and still have to make FP checks.

Soviet Pride wrote:
(and being a gun they arent suppose to trasverse terrain (and btw they are medium guns that move like light ones).


Thanks for the update. My Red Bear book must have been superseded.

Soviet Pride wrote:
Mortars are always a concern, but I have 4 template weapons for less than 400 points... Im quite confident I could win most artillery duels.


I'm not sure I'd be as confident using trained kit against vets. Vets will range in on you better than you range in on them and when ranged in they will hit more often than you hit. In my last V4 game my trained Nebs were bested by Vet 25pdrs.

Soviet Pride wrote:
If those are the main flaws of the list, this one is certainly autoplay.


I did not say there were flaws. Just noting that they were facts being left out of the discussion.


Wed Mar 22, 2017 4:45 pm
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Tom make the maths, every time they appear the Tip3M priority flight (IE six cannon shoots) has arround a 75% chances of killing a veteran king tiger and they are very resilient to AAA fire... there is nothing better for killing armour in LW V4 adaptation so they are an automatic no brainer in all soviet lists.

You make an important point showing out that winning in the artillery duel is the key to success in the V4 battlefield, thats why this force has 4 templates (one of them double wide)... its hard to imposse yourself over that.


Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:27 pm
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In my understanding the transports of the Zis-3 have passenger fire 50cals... if they dont, is another broken rule, and would simply make the lists even more "fun" (IE- Autoplay, cheesy)... thats why I havent included them.


Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:29 pm
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Soviet Pride wrote:
Tom make the maths, every time they appear the Tip3M priority flight (IE six cannon shoots) has arround a 75% chances of killing a veteran king tiger and they are very resilient to AAA fire... there is nothing better for killing armour in LW V4 adaptation so they are an automatic no brainer in all soviet lists.


I'm not known for taking King Tigers so am personally not too worried about them. They were vulnerable under V43 to AOPs match up with ToT US 155s, that's not a real issue now under V4 but Big Cannon air is. The world turns, big deal. Sure I expect to see much more Sthurmovicks in V4, I just don't have any issue with that. If it's an "autotake" players will employ counters like their own air and good AAA.

Soviet Pride wrote:
You make an important point showing out that winning in the artillery duel is the key to success in the V4 battlefield, thats why this force has 4 templates (one of them double wide)... its hard to imposse yourself over that.


Prepping the battlefield I'd call it.


Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:43 pm
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Soviet Pride wrote:
In my understanding the transports of the Zis-3 have passenger fire 50cals... if they dont, is another broken rule, .


Yes , it didn't matter in V3 , as they didn't have mounted assault . No doubt V4 will throw up a few more odd balls , that didn't matter in V3 . :o

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Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:52 pm
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Well Tip 3M dont only take down King tigers, they are even more effective against Panthers or any type of medium tanks... and there are no simple counters like spreading against the 155´s in V3... those Tip3M can perfectly hit (and kill with a high change ratio) six different tanks every single time they arrive.

BTW those USA 155´s with AOP that were so overpowered in V3 have arround a 20% change of killing a King Tiger with every barrage, the Priority Tip3M have arround a 75% destroy chance.

Also enemy air support no longer affects (except in very few lists) your own air, so its not a counter... and even the most dense AAA cover wont prevent 3 flying tanks achieving its mission (AAA has actually become quite a joke in V4 since aircraft are probably one of the harder targets in the new ruleset).

So please do some maths before answering... you could just say that you dont bother about balance because you just want to have "fun"... but then again I cant see the "fun" in playing an obviously rigged game.


Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:01 pm
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Soviet Pride wrote:
Well Tip 3M dont only take down King tigers, they are even more effective against Panthers or any type of medium tanks... and there are no simple counters like spreading against the 155´s in V3... those Tip3M can perfectly hit (and kill with a high change ratio) six different tanks every single time they arrive.


They still have to have to come on, they still have to hit, and they still have to make the FP check (or get a douple bail) to get the kills. I don't think that's going to work out to losing six tanks every turn of the game.

Soviet Pride wrote:
BTW those USA 155´s with AOP that were so overpowered in V3 have arround a 20% change of killing a King Tiger with every barrage, the Priority Tip3M have arround a 75% destroy chance.


More reason not to take the King Tiger I was already not taking.

Soviet Pride wrote:
Also enemy air support no longer affects (except in very few lists) your own air, so its not a counter... and even the most dense AAA cover wont prevent 3 flying tanks achieving its mission (AAA has actually become quite a joke in V4 since aircraft are probably one of the harder targets in the new ruleset).


If it remains that much of a problem, people will graviate more to the lists that do allow air intercept, and of course the Germans have their own good cannon armed air options.

Soviet Pride wrote:
So please do some maths before answering... you could just say that you dont bother about balance because you just want to have "fun"... but then again I cant see the "fun" in playing an obviously rigged game.


No need to try to be tool here. I am indeed always concerend about balance and playability (fun) even though I may not be freaking out as much as others. US TDs, BAR, NGFS, PSVs, etc. I've been through them all and I've seen them all adjusted when they did get as bad as you expect. So I'm relaxed and able to focus on the postive potential of V4 changes and not get over sensitive about where balance has not fully worked itself out yet. In the interim a solsution could be just not allowing air support at events if they are so broke. Maybe in V4 "cards" air will just have two planes as a max option like MW does now? Maybe the gun stats will change like they did on the MW M3 Grant's 75mm gun range.

Have a little faith. BF has managed to keep FoW fun and playable for a good while now and has shown when serious issues arise and are vaildated, that they will take action. If its impssible for you to find fun in V4, no problem, drive on with V3 with your mates and continue your fun there. We'll still be here when V5 comes around if that works better for you.


Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:39 pm
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Dont be paternalistic... the problem is not my personal taste on "fun" or my preference of one version over another, the problem is the huge loopholes in the rushed EW/LW patch for V4 (a patch that will be active for quite a long time)... every single list I have posted here is broken to the point it makes BAR, TD´s or NGFS unbalances a child play in comparison.

If people actually want to play V4 as a hobby, they should be concerned about this issues... or else the game will degrade very quickly. The quality control put forward by BF on the V4 releases till date is crap, I really hope a community with self esteem can reverse this.


Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:17 pm
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If not, there's still V3 for EW/LW if you prefer. Hope you find some happy gaming ground somewhere.


Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:49 pm
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