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V4 lists, what do you think you will run? 
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For me, in LW, V4 has given me a reason to finish my Italy FJ

2 or 3 Platoons
medium and heavy mortars
Marders and possibly Stugs to taste

Early War
I'm going to try and get my Kiwi Rifle Co working
It'll have a platoon of Vals, 3" mortars and possibly 25lbers depending on points.

What are you guys thinking of running?


Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:39 am
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Whatever it is no doubt it will be one of the crappy lists. That's my luck with FoW and list building. I'm working on 12 M5 Stuart's to go with the 5 I have. That already looks to be reduced in capability, no MG's firing with main guns and reduced movement. See what I'm saying?

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Sun Jan 15, 2017 5:07 pm
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Here is what appears to be the main points for consideration / avoidance:

1) Big platoons are much better for the points. ARP for example. Rather than rolling for the break at 6 alive, it is now 2 alive.
2) Guns are better. 3+ save all the time...
3) Transports / mech are better - they don't leave.
4) Fast movers / light tanks are not better, but worse.
5) Standard tanks are fine.
6) Slow tanks are better.

So with that in mind, US and Soviets seem to be a good early bet due to the fact that both can have large infantry platoons (US - ARP and LW Infantry; Soviets - pretty much every platoon is large...). Armor favors the Soviets with large platoons. US is down graded for armor because all the bells and whistles have been reduced - light tanks, Jumbos, Detroit's Finest, Smooth Ride, etc. Combine these and combine the gun changes and Soviets seem to be the early winner.

However... there may be some gems in the rough. Desperate Measures Trained Panzer IVs...

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Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:07 pm
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Soviet Strelk and US ARC for MW.


Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:24 pm
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KWEL-Terrain wrote:
For me, in LW, V4 has given me a reason to finish my Italy FJ

2 or 3 Platoons
medium and heavy mortars
Marders and possibly Stugs to taste

Early War
I'm going to try and get my Kiwi Rifle Co working
It'll have a platoon of Vals, 3" mortars and possibly 25lbers depending on points.

What are you guys thinking of running?


I think that would be a pretty sound force even in V3. I know, I have it and have run it for years. PAK-40s will be a good add also. But if the heavy mortars don't have smoke, you may want to swap them for HQ Mortars to be able to throw up more smoke screens.

My initial focus for V4 will be to expand my existing DAK Infantry force since that's where V4 will start off. But I'm doing that more so for theme etc. rather than changing my force type or play style due to the new rules.


Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:34 pm
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"What are you guys thinking of running?"

Why would the rules change what list you play? Has WWII changed? Are the rules that bad that you are unable to run the list one is currently running? Or is this a question that only makes sense to power gamers?

I run infantry lists, I have been comfortable running infantry lists since 2005 and I am not sure why that would change?


Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:55 pm
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SECfootball wrote:
Or is this a question that only makes sense to power gamers?


I think you hit it off there. I'm pretty sure i'll be as mediocre as ever with V4 regardless of whatever crappy list I think is good.

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Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:44 pm
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Yep. I'm still keeping to my normal forces/lists. Certainly not planning on doing any new forces in this year. I could see some kit making more of an appearance that it use to and maybe some less. But what I run in V4 will look 90% or more just like I ran in V3, which was just about what I ran in V2.


Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:27 pm
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Yep, I'll be just as bad with V4 as with V3. But, I'm more likely in V4 to be bad with a list like the Gebirgsjager, which, in whatever era, is typically a little light in the armor department but is well-endowed with lots of cheap, light gun options.

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Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:33 pm
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It looks like my Churchill list will get better. If I pay for the Churchill VIIs, do I get to allocate hits to them first now? or is it still how it was?


Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:04 pm
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Your shooting opponent allocates hits initially. Then you get to roll to swap hits from on team to the other.


Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:15 pm
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SECfootball wrote:
"What are you guys thinking of running?"

Why would the rules change what list you play? Has WWII changed? Are the rules that bad that you are unable to run the list one is currently running? Or is this a question that only makes sense to power gamers?

I run infantry lists, I have been comfortable running infantry lists since 2005 and I am not sure why that would change?


Well I can tell you right now two of my armies have seen their last day on a table if I move into TY in WWII instead of continuing in V3 FOW.

My Panzerspähkompanie in LW with up to 25 Pumas for one. My Schwere Panzerjägerkompanie from Nuts! with up to 4 Jagdtigers for another.

My MW Jääkärikomppania is likely a solid choice if it ever gets released...probably in 4 years or so if I'm lucky.

I have a feeling that they will further break my MW British Heavy Armoured Squadron with Grants (never a all comer list but playable).

Fallschirmjäger and Panzer Lehr infantry are likely solid still.

All of the above is to say that with the changes to Morale, in particular when you have to test for not being in good spirits is going to vastly alter what is playable in a competitive setting. Obviously hanging out with buddies in the game store or the game room you will play whatever, however, if you are travelling to a tournament for competitive play you are less likely to take a list that is now due to nothing more than the changes in the rules a complete dog competition wise.


Wed Feb 01, 2017 1:55 am
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I'm thinking BA winter Germans for me.


Wed Feb 01, 2017 7:01 pm
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Gothmog wrote:
I'm thinking BA winter Germans for me.


What are "BA" winter Germans? or did you mean B@R?


Wed Feb 01, 2017 9:25 pm
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Bolt Action


Wed Feb 01, 2017 9:31 pm
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Interesting enough the BA guys are pretty silent for the moment. I think V2 didn't sit well. Seems to be some angst over the Tiger Terror and +2 cover to go down. You should have hung onto the US Airborne in 15mm, would have been a nice skirmish force.

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Wed Feb 01, 2017 9:46 pm
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there's got to be a WWII rules set out there that will work well with tournaments, or do we need to build one? :)


Wed Feb 01, 2017 9:48 pm
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Gothmog wrote:
there's got to be a WWII rules set out there that will work well with tournaments, or do we need to build one? :)


No need to build one, just modify v3 with a Season Rules or Tournament Pack to fix the biggest issues remaining and viola.


Wed Feb 01, 2017 11:16 pm
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Gothmog wrote:
Bolt Action

Ouch

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Wed Feb 01, 2017 11:29 pm
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[Snark On]

So perhaps we simply take V3, modify with a tournament pack and then require players to have 51% of PSC or any manufacturer OTHER THAN BF?

That could work!

[Snark Off]

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Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:18 am
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Gothmog wrote:
there's got to be a WWII rules set out there that will work well with tournaments, or do we need to build one? :)


Build one. You know enough. Have WWPD host it or Kickstarter it. BTW, we have been playing Grand Battles Napoleon which has a holdover rule from an earlier set (Konig-Krieg) for alternating movement and response testing. Been discussing it with others and something similar would work well for WW2. Already BA has alternating movement, but lacks a real good response test.


Thu Feb 02, 2017 4:02 pm
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Desch has written games before...

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Thu Feb 02, 2017 4:46 pm
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webgriffin wrote:
Desch has written games before...


trust me, been working all the angles around here. :)


Thu Feb 02, 2017 5:01 pm
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Mark wrote:
webgriffin wrote:
Desch has written games before...


trust me, been working all the angles around here. :)


I did not realize Jon has done that. But I think it has been a few years (over 4) since I last was able to talk to him.


Thu Feb 02, 2017 5:14 pm
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Mark wrote:
Gothmog wrote:
there's got to be a WWII rules set out there that will work well with tournaments, or do we need to build one? :)


Build one. You know enough. Have WWPD host it or Kickstarter it. BTW, we have been playing Grand Battles Napoleon which has a holdover rule from an earlier set (Konig-Krieg) for alternating movement and response testing. Been discussing it with others and something similar would work well for WW2. Already BA has alternating movement, but lacks a real good response test.


I think alternating movement/orders is key. That kind of takes care of Opportunity Fire to some extent.

I also really like BA games just going 6 or 7 turns, with the players not knowing if another turn will occur until the end of the 6th turn.

Off board artillery, and possibly a straight liner ground scale are things I'd consider as well.


Thu Feb 02, 2017 10:57 pm
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