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US Engineer's 1650 
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Technical Sergeant
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Hi everyone. Hoping you all had a nice Christmas and ended up on the nice list.

I'm thinking about playing a few tournaments competitively in this next year and I am trying to get together a couple lists. I'm going to post 2 US lists that I have most everything painted for already and see if you experts can help me out. I'll start with these US Engineers and post some US tanks after the new year.

I have been playing and enjoying the following list from Devil's Charge at 1500 pts.

Image

I am curious what you all think of the list at 1500 and what you would do to make one at 1650. There are a tons of different ways to do that and I am unsure what would be most effective. I have, or will have shortly, just about every option available for that briefing.

There are a couple things that I feel need to be in the list but I am open for change.

  • I think its important to have one of the combat platoons to be at or near full strength. However, some of the bazooka's could sit in the HQ for flexibility.
  • I think the 105 field artillery is pretty important. It's the only template, short of air, available in the briefing and the only smoke if I stick with TD's over Sherman's.
  • The improvised recon platoon 3 sections. It's got to be the cheapest front loading mechanism in the whole game and they are useful to boot. I might be persuaded to take 2 sections but no less.

Anyone have some ideas?

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Thu Dec 26, 2013 10:26 pm
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@@I think its important to have one of the combat platoons to be at or near full strength. However, some of the bazooka's could sit in the HQ for flexibility.

I disagree with this 100% I think at least 2 platoons should be full strength. Engineer platoons should always max out their bazookas. Those bazookas give them numbers in an assault. Normally there are no add ons but in this case you can make the platoons bigger due to the HQ attachment. That said, I do not think you can attach 2 bazookas to a platoon so therefore on get as many bazookas as you have platoons.

Also I think this list should be built to attack. Then it is easy to reallocate to defend with.

I think the 3xrecon platoons are excellent, just remember they are recon and use them as recon.

Lastly, why are you getting a 57mm platoon? Your main AT weapon is a platoon of assaulting engineers.


Fri Dec 27, 2013 5:26 am
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More precisely I could have said that at least one of the combat platoons should be full strength. I'm not opposed to two full strength, I was giving a minimum requirement for anyone making a suggestion.

You can attach as many HQ infantry teams as you like to a platoon. The half rule only applies to gun teams.

I'm not sure how I build the list to attack. I can give the engineers vehicles. Beyond that I'm not sure.

I love the 3 jeep recon patrols but they can die quickly so I usually hide them, use as intended to lift GTG, block spearheads, and come on from reserve MGing infantry in the open.

The 57mm platoon is for ambush. I will likely be defending half or more of the time so will need a good ambush platoon. With the TD's this will give me effectively two ambushes. If I deploy as 10 platoons there are at least two missions where I could have 2 ambushes plus the TD's. The 57 platoon gives me more bazooka's, mobility with protection from rifles, and .50 cals. I thought it could be used to secure an objective if needed. It's much more fragile being trained but for the price I thought it was an all in all good choice.

There are a couple types of AT in the game. There is the Tank Assault kind the engineers/zook's can provide, the close in type Faust/schreck/piat/zook's provide, and AT at range that AFV's and AT guns provide. I felt I needed more AT at range.

I can't run this list with 3 engineer platoons even if it makes it better. I'll time out. I'd just run tanks at that point. I don't think I'm skilled enough to run it with 3 infantry. I'm going to practice as much as I can but it will be less than many people.

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Fri Dec 27, 2013 4:43 pm
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@@I can't run this list with 3 engineer platoons even if it makes it better. I'll time out.

I have a totally different philosophy and believe that a trackless infantry list can move quickly in game time & cross the table. I also believe that an engineer platoon can make a great ambush platoon. I also believe that some ambushes are best when they hide a unit & not as an "offensive" weapon.

@@I felt I needed more AT at range.
This is not something I feel is necessary either.

To me the an infantry list is like a system with many parts that provide input. It is the relationship of the entire list among each other that gives you strength.

I have a feeling my philosophy may be to different to offer useful advice.


Fri Dec 27, 2013 5:59 pm
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You definitely have a more infantry heavy approach but I think you still have useful advice. I wouldn't be able to field a 3rd platoon of engineers but I could put in a 2nd ID Rifle Platoon zooked up. It would actually only be one (depending on how to count the transports from a management) more team than the 57 platoon.

I've seen tons of infantry being very demoralizing to opponents. I'm not very practiced in that play style.

If I took 3 infantry platoons what support would you chose?

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Mon Dec 30, 2013 5:03 am
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I took US Engineers to the 2013 Shifting Sands event (AAR here...) My list was similar (at the bottom). It was a good list and a good event!

The 99th Rifle Platoon was from the 99th Infantry BATTALION, not to be confused with the 99th ID, so it was CV and had all the bells and whistles. I'd say this was the most valuable and hard-working platoon in the force!

I'd think about swapping the 57s in half-tracks for a more useful platoon, such as 3" or 90mm guns. You need stand-off power in this list.

Do you have any AARs?

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Mon Dec 30, 2013 6:31 am
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Four 6-1 Victories and one loss from bad deployment, that is very impressive. I can only hope to do that well.

I'm going to think really hard on how to make a 3rd infantry platoon work for my play style and ability.

I do have the 90mm guns in the cabinet, NIB. I was thinking about dropping the AOP and adding in the guns (as veterans) with no other changes bringing the list up to ~1650. For the event that I am trying to attend in February I'll probably have to stick with the 57's or some other permutation until I could get them built and painted.

I have a few questions about your list.

1. Were the transports worth it for the Rifle Platoon? Alternatively, do you see utility for them in an Engineer platoon?
2. If you played the engineers again would take 2 Supply trucks again? I have one in my list currently.

I followed your stories about the army building and the after reports. Somewhere in there (maybe versus Steve) you said you wished you could have some AFV's but you went more historical. I wanted to use AFV's, again the Toads are in the cabinet NIB, so my list building is bound by those point requirements. Do you have thoughts on which AFV and skill level? The Jackson's would probably be terrifying to the enemy but I chose Trained M10's as the value play. I like the extra ambush so did not chose Tanks.

I don't have any AAR's but can share some pictures of a game if you like. I do, however, have this battle plan that I use to play the list at 1500 points. It's of course subject to battle conditions and how many homebrews I've had ;).

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0WeW5 ... sp=sharing

Image

What do you think?

So I have two calls for additional infantry, one call for more robust ranged AT and another that it's not absolutely vital. Good help so far guys, thanks.

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Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:19 pm
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I haven't played engineers (though I've thought about it) but I have to say your deployment chart is really quite impressive! Do you bring it to tournaments with you?

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Tue Jan 07, 2014 3:28 am
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WWPDThrockmorton wrote:
I haven't played engineers (though I've thought about it) but I have to say your deployment chart is really quite impressive! Do you bring it to tournaments with you?


Thanks, I've just been using it in casual games. I just staple it to my Easy Army printout. It helps me not having to rethink everything through and gives me a place to start, even if I change something.

I have not actually played them in this form at a tournament. I played them in a 2000 pt team tournament. I had 1100 points, six platoons, with 4 vet Sherman's & 3 recon patrols, and my teammate had Vet TD CO (900 pts) with 2 platoons of Hellcats. We won best overall and had second most VP's. We even took down a fortified company with pioneers and teleporting TD's.

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Tue Jan 07, 2014 5:25 am
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I guess I am going to run with the below list. It's just a beefed up version of the 1500 list. I wanted to maximize the combat platoons and add a second supply truck so I had to drop my artillery to trained. I think that will be ok. If I have to attack it'll likely be static positions so the staff team with ranged in marker will be fine. If I am defending I am likely use it for smoke half the time and I'll get 4 dice with the AOP to hit my mark for smoke. I wouldn't expect it to hurt much in the way of armor, it is more likely to change how people move (bunching up and such) than anything so I'm ok with trained.

I'm just not ready to try 3 infantry platoons in spite of the good advice. Time constraints and model availability have prevented me from swapping the 57 platoon. Plus I worked on them a good while and just want to play them anyway. I'm sure you all can appreciate wanting to get your hard work on the table. I still considering dropping one recon platoon and few bazooka's to substitute in a half platoon of AA half-tracks. I'm sort of torn on that. I feel as a half platoon they will be every bit a VP bleed as the small recon sections.

Image

For the tournament in April I really hope to take Jackson's instead of M10's at the cost of a few bazookas.

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Mon Feb 03, 2014 6:37 pm
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Take the bazookas from the armored 57mm platoon.


Tue Feb 04, 2014 3:50 am
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Just noticed your questions :)

I've gotta get a game in this afternoon and I'll hit you back with some thoughts this evening!

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Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:01 am
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How do you keep the text in your pics from becoming blurry? Every time I screen cap from Easy Army to make a pic, it looks fine then I post it and it looks fuzzy. I've used MSPaint and Photoshop, tried different formats and resizing but nothing has helped.

As for the list:
Why do you have .50cals on the Pioneer Supply Trucks? Those aren't the same as the transport dump trucks. Those are the trucks you will remove from the table when you put down barbed wire or minefields or re-roll to dig in. It's a waste of points.

Put .50cals on your Recon Jeeps. It is amazing what those things can do!


Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:45 am
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Dameon13 wrote:
How do you keep the text in your pics from becoming blurry? Every time I screen cap from Easy Army to make a pic, it looks fine then I post it and it looks fuzzy. I've used MSPaint and Photoshop, tried different formats and resizing but nothing has helped.

As for the list:
Why do you have .50cals on the Pioneer Supply Trucks? Those aren't the same as the transport dump trucks. Those are the trucks you will remove from the table when you put down barbed wire or minefields or re-roll to dig in. It's a waste of points.

Put .50cals on your Recon Jeeps. It is amazing what those things can do!

You cannot send Pioneer Supply Vehicles to the rear so rather than "removing them from the table when you put down obstacles" you have to keep them around.


Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:09 am
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ScaryBiscuits wrote:
Just noticed your questions :)

I've gotta get a game in this afternoon and I'll hit you back with some thoughts this evening!


Looking forward to your thoughts. You seem to be running them very effectively.

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Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:39 pm
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Dameon13 wrote:
How do you keep the text in your pics from becoming blurry? Every time I screen cap from Easy Army to make a pic, it looks fine then I post it and it looks fuzzy. I've used MSPaint and Photoshop, tried different formats and resizing but nothing has helped.

As for the list:
Why do you have .50cals on the Pioneer Supply Trucks? Those aren't the same as the transport dump trucks. Those are the trucks you will remove from the table when you put down barbed wire or minefields or re-roll to dig in. It's a waste of points.

Put .50cals on your Recon Jeeps. It is amazing what those things can do!


I use CTRL-PrtScn then paste into MS paint. Crop to size and save as JPG. Upload to Imageshack and embed image link at 800x600 roughly.

V3 no longer requires you to pull supply vehicles after deploying wire or mines. You get wire and re-rolls for digging in if you want. Also since it is classified as a transport I believe you can remove them and call them back as desired, though I may be incorrect on that. 5 pts for .50 is alright by me. Extra shot(s). They are not so much a waste of points. They are filler points. I can take them or leave them to make other units fit.

I've considered .50's for the jeeps and may do so if I have a few leftover points. They need to hide, do recon duty, and not bleed VP's so I don't feel the .50 is required. Frankly it's probably just a temptation that will get them destroyed.

I have to make one more change to the list after reviewing the attachment rules. I'll be dropping one bazooka and possibly 1/2 the HMG's. I will be changing my battle plan and attaching one 57, one HMG, and one bazooka to each combat platoon to make them an even number of teams with at least 2 guns teams in each (4 if I don't swap). I thought I could leave the bazooka's with the HQ support platoon by I have to attach the infantry and because of that I do not want to run the 2iC and (2) 57's as a platoon --too frail. Reserves will roughly be recon (3 sections), armored 57's with half-tracks, and a half section of HMG's. Deployed will be 2 engineer platoons, TD's, and 105's.

I have 85-95 points to play with if I drop 1/2 the HMG's, bazooka, and supply MG's. Unfortunately I do not have enough time to finish my Jackson's or half-track AA and I need the points available to be another platoon or I would go from 9 to 8. It's looking ever more likely as 20 spare points to burn on .50's, trucks, SMG's. I'd love to give my M10's top armor but again I lack the models.

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Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:06 pm
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PrivateSnafu wrote:
I'm going to think really hard on how to make a 3rd infantry platoon work for my play style and ability.

Very much worth it if you can make it work.

PrivateSnafu wrote:
I do have the 90mm guns in the cabinet, NIB. I was thinking about dropping the AOP and adding in the guns (as veterans) with no other changes bringing the list up to ~1650. For the event that I am trying to attend in February I'll probably have to stick with the 57's or some other permutation until I could get them built and painted.

The 90s were good for a bit of distraction and as a threat factor, though not entirely necessary if you have M10s helping out.

PrivateSnafu wrote:
1. Were the transports worth it for the Rifle Platoon? Alternatively, do you see utility for them in an Engineer platoon?

For the rifle platoon, absolutely. Though they are mandatory for the 99th (Norwegian) Infantry Battalion option. The platoon was always in Reserve (when that rule came up) and the trucks were an option to help them get to where they were needed. They usually spent one turn in the trucks (after I made sure there was nothing that could engage them), then (if needed) Truscott Trot through terrain for a turn, and that put them in position rather quickly (12+16 = 28", two turns).

Also, a veteran platoon that moved at the double is a tempting target for your opponent, use that. It usually doesn't pay off for them thanks to being Vet and being in concealment, plus it disrupts their timetable when a platoon arrives to reinforce an objective. I'm pretty sure I moved at the double at least once in every game, some times more often.

For the engineers, I opted not to use them because they were my men holding objectives. With small-ish platoons (two teams of which are guns) I found it was better for them to be on table and have the Rifles as my mobile reserve. In my games, the engineers never performed well on the move except for in one game against King Tigers ;)


PrivateSnafu wrote:
2. If you played the engineers again would take 2 Supply trucks again? I have one in my list currently.

Probably not, actually, as I rarely had a mission and table line up to make the points worth it. I'd take one, but maybe not two, depending on what to take with the 25 points instead.


PrivateSnafu wrote:
followed your stories about the army building and the after reports. Somewhere in there (maybe versus Steve) you said you wished you could have some AFV's but you went more historical. I wanted to use AFV's, again the Toads are in the cabinet NIB, so my list building is bound by those point requirements. Do you have thoughts on which AFV and skill level? The Jackson's would probably be terrifying to the enemy but I chose Trained M10's as the value play. I like the extra ambush so did not chose Tanks.

I used the Towed TDs as rather clumsy and awkward tanks. They were on the move a lot, silly though that is. I certainly didn't start off thinking like that, but I did find that in the games I needed to have some mobility, so the .50cals on the half-tracks and the 3" guns kept enemy infantry and tanks honest. Got them killed a few times, but it was always worth it.

Going back, I'd also add the M10s instead of the 3" guns, probably Trained due to points. If it fit I'd make them Vet in a heartbeat. The mobility pays off, but not having to mess around with remounting half-tracks would have been useful. Like you I think they help the engineers better than Shermans. I believe M4s are excellent for helping assault, but not a great counter-punch when you have the option to take TDs.

PrivateSnafu wrote:
I don't have any AAR's but can share some pictures of a game if you like. I do, however, have this battle plan that I use to play the list at 1500 points. It's of course subject to battle conditions and how many homebrews I've had ;).


I'd love to see the photos!

PrivateSnafu wrote:

Image


What do you think?


Pretty damn amazing! Looking like you've put a lot more prep into your battle plan than I did! Well done. I can't fault anything there at a glance. I'll have a closer look and then copy your battleplan idea ;)

PrivateSnafu wrote:
So I have two calls for additional infantry, one call for more robust ranged AT and another that it's not absolutely vital. Good help so far guys, thanks.

Sounds good. I'd play around with the infantry option. It'll give you some assault poise and a tough defending platoon.

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Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:54 pm
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PrivateSnafu wrote:

I use CTRL-PrtScn then paste into MS paint. Crop to size and save as JPG. Upload to Imageshack and embed image link at 800x600 roughly.


That's pretty much exactly what I do but I used Photobucket. I'll give Imageshack a try.

PrivateSnafu wrote:
V3 no longer requires you to pull supply vehicles after deploying wire or mines. You get wire and re-rolls for digging in if you want. Also since it is classified as a transport I believe you can remove them and call them back as desired, though I may be incorrect on that.


I haven't used supply vehicles in 3rd yet, but I went back and read through the rules. The changes do make them far better! I don't think you are allowed to pull it off the table as a transport though, but at the same time I don't think you need to have a team in the vehicle to fire the .50cal either.

I've used US Airborne Recon Jeeps with .50cals. Bigger patrols and veteran, but their speed and that 3+ save is amazing. The MMGs aren't to impressive, but put .50cals on those Jeeps and when not being recon they can zip around to your opponent's rear and shoot up stuff, and they are just enough of a threat he has to have something go deal with them! Don't get so locked into using recon as recon that you miss other opportunities with them. Two jeeps can win you a game.


Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:43 am
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I got to play at Genghis Con last weekend. All of my opponents were friendly, gracious, and good sports. For that matter I never heard a raised voice or any complaining from all 22 attendees.

This is what I ended up running:

Image

The tournament software is horribly broken in my opinion. Unless there was some extreme foul up in data entry there is no way that the winner should have been who it was. My hobby mentor actually beat the 1st place winner having at least one more victory point and her painting score was higher but she took 2nd. Other people had more VP's than I and had lower general scores. The prizes were all about equal so no big deal there but people should get bragging rights.

My first game was against Ian in Free-for-All against his marvelously painted German Infantry Co. It was one of those newer lists with a crazy mix of trained, vets, confident, and fearless containing Tigers without Tiger Ace skills, Pak 40's, 88's, and 3 templates (155's, Heavy Mortars, & 15cm's) which blew my engineers to pieces. It was eight platoons and was going to be tough to move off an objective. I sent one engineer platoon, 57's, and TD's along with some recon to get one objective guarded by 3 PzIII's and 1 PZIV, an infantry platoon, and mortars. I sent the other combat platoon against the second objective near the Tigers and rest. I think we only went 4 turns because we were both pretty rusty. He hit both of my engineer platoons with a bombardment in 3 consecutive turns (2,3,4) and might have in turn one had I gone first. Needless to say by the time I was able to get into assault range I was already nearing half strength with both combat platoons. I was able to successfully assault with both platoons but he made all his counterattack morale rolls and I failed mine. He ended up chasing off one group of Engineers and I killed none of his. That combat platoon's commander was dumb enough to load three teams into a building that got blasted by 15cm's, ooops! I couldn't get the objective but I gave it a good effort and forced him to defend against me. I wish I had trucks for the engineer's, I definitely had an opportunity on turn two to move, load, and race out of line of sight. I needed to move these dudes faster but the platoons were so big that I could never keep all the teams in cover. In hindsight I should have sent both combat platoons to one objective with support and tangled with the Tigers using my TD's tying up the other side of the board.

1 VP for me and 2 VP's for Ian. Ian won best army in the end and he deserved it.

The second game was against CBT in Breakthrough. CBT is a young budding FoW enthusiast who was attending with his father. He had 17 Reluctant Veteran Cromwells and 2 Crusader AA's. I blocked the best routes with two mine fields and deployed engineers in each quadrant. 57's and recon in reserve. He left 2 platoons in reserve, split his forces, and went at each quadrant. I immediately double timed twice an engineer group and security section toward the objectives leaving behind a picket line of bazooka's for him to deal with. To his credit he tried to breakthrough the lines of each engineer group and successfully pulled off a couple assaults, again me failing my morale checks, but there was just too much bazooka fire and turn three reinforcements of 57's coming in right on his flank. I almost completely lost the game when his reserves came on and contested the far objective. I revealed my TD's but forgot to move to contest. Fortunately I scored 7 hits and annihilated that platoon. I'd already killed his Company commander and that put him below half strength. You have to move really fast in Breakthrough when defending. My engineers had been on the move since turn one and still had not got to the far objective. I'll have to rethink deployment so I can be closer with dudes running from the short side. I've actually never lost a game of Breakthrough with my US armor and I can better relate being the defender, its tough. I'm not sure I have ever defended in Breakthrough even during Infantry Aces. Again I think trucks would have been really helpful. The 57's were great. The terrain was really tough for CBT with tons of cover and rubble for me.

6 VP to me and 1 VP to CBT.

The last game was Hold the Line against Charles playing Guards Armor. Charles is another budding FoW enthusiast. My list is designed stupendously for this mission with 10 platoons, 2 ambush's, and TD's cloaked. The terrain was heavy and featured a river which we decided to just call a stream. Again I blocked the best paths with minefields and waited for him to come. I ambushed his infantry with the 57's and half track 50 cals. essentially blocking them for the rest of the game. Once my recon jeeps with MG's came on and took over duty blasting the infantry the 57's exchanged shots with Sherman's and Firefly's for multiple turns. I smoked his armor so he never got much if any use out of SiF. He was never able to assault me and I didn't even reveal the TD's or engineer's in ambush. It was pretty tough game for him and he soldiered on until I killed every team except one infantry stand.

6 VP to me and 1 VP for Charles.

I give much credit to CBT and Charles for persistently attacking. Without diminishing their efforts I can't take a lot of credit for winning the last 2 games. My experience and knowledge of the game, albeit moderate, was much more than theirs along with the terrain setups and missions favoring me. If they stick with FoW I am sure they will become tough opponents.

The most awesome thing I learned at the tournament was a painting tip from Ian that I hope to feature in a post on my blog sometime in the future. Make sure you follow it.

I ended up taking 3rd place overall. As I said the scoring was horribly fouled up. I had less VP's than some others but got a higher general score. I did get 3rd best painted and at least one vote for best I know of. Ian had best painted as mentioned. Much of his army was all on really nice resin bases. I think maybe King & Kerr. Gwen's stuff is always beautiful, she got 2nd best painted with her TD's. I guess you can only do some much with olive drab. She usually wins best. I was very pleased with third best painted. My army featured scratch built barbed wire that never left the army trays and will be the next feature on Move, Shoot, Assault.

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Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:53 am
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Thanks for the tournement write up. It's always interesting to see how a list performs in several games. I'm looking at starting an engineer company soon myself.


Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:58 pm
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http://easyarmy.com/FoWPrint.aspx

That is my list.


Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:16 pm
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Technical Sergeant
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Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2011 8:15 pm
Posts: 1048
Location: Auckland, NZ
Well done, sir!

Nice blog too :)

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Cheers,
Mike

My blog!
http://www.scarybiscuitsstudios.com
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Wed Feb 26, 2014 9:24 pm
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First Sergeant

Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:04 pm
Posts: 2145
Location: NoVa
@@The most awesome thing I learned at the tournament was a painting tip from Ian that I hope to feature in a post on my blog sometime in the future. Make sure you follow it.

I am traveling so I can see your blog, but when I get home my internet provider blocks you tube & blog accounts. Can you please post the tip here?


Thu Feb 27, 2014 7:15 am
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Corporal
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Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:25 am
Posts: 181
Where do you live? North Korea?


Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:23 pm
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First Sergeant

Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:04 pm
Posts: 2145
Location: NoVa
DJ see my PM.


Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:23 pm
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